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Other Basic Electronics, Multimeters, & Oscilloscopes

This thread is about basic electrical, electronics, Multimeters, and Oscilloscopes. It is an outcome of interest that various members have expressed about these subjects.

@Janger , @Johnwa , and @kevin.decelles have all recently obtained a starter Oscilloscope so I think the timing is good for a thread like this.

The primary resource will be a book (available on Amazon in paper or kindle) called Electronics for Dummies by Kathleen Shamieh. The book isn't a requirement, but it always helps to have a reference of some kind to facilitate discussion. Other references might get added as the thread progresses.

I'm not picturing this thread as a course, just a good place to ask questions, find answers, and share knowledge and experience about basic electrical knowledge and testing.

As always, a good time and lots of great jokes are expected!
 
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slow-poke said:
I have two stereo amplifiers; an old Marantz as well as a tube amplifier.
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I have an older 2270 Marantz too. I also have a newer Marantz in the shop and two Sony's in the house. Mostly I listen to my phone through ear buds now.

I've read about your clipping version of what happens in tube amps before. I even tried to see it on a scope. It only happened at very high volumes where the clipping looks downright ugly with high frequency noise that I prolly couldn't hear. What I did see is what I would call peak rounding which could prolly sound softer mellower or smoother to the listener. Not true fidelity but perhaps better sounding. I dunno, I used to be much more interested before my ears divorced me.
 
Susquatch said:
My theory is that most of those purists who can afford such stuff are too old to hear the difference.

In my case, the tinnitus, the high freq loss, and the sub sonic vibrations in my skull suggest transistor amps are way more than I'll ever need.

But who knows, maybe there are a few old guys around who actually can.
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Well just wait a while with all the headsets, EarPods, and blaring vehicles we will soon have company. I have some bagpipe music that I’m dying to blast when some vehicle comes to impress me.
 
Susquatch said:
My theory is that most of those purists who can afford such stuff are too old to hear the difference.

In my case, the tinnitus, the high freq loss, and the sub sonic vibrations in my skull suggest transistor amps are way more than I'll ever need.

But who knows, maybe there are a few old guys around who actually can.
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My tinnitus is also now an issue with hi fi sound. I have two 15" Altec 604-8G Coaxial Speakers in Karlson Enclosures. Sadly the Denon 7.1 sound system doesn't really know what to do with them. The rest of the speakers are Klipsch but I haven't attached a sub-woofer because theoretically the LEFT and RIGHT 15" should produce more than enough bass. But the amp doesn't do that and it also doesn't have the Fletcher Munson Loudness compensation ability like our older two channel Sony.

And none of it matters with the loss of high frequency detection and Tinnitus drowning out the rest of the highs.

 
jcdammeyer said:
My tinnitus is also now an issue with hi fi sound. I have two 15" Altec 604-8G Coaxial Speakers in Karlson Enclosures. Sadly the Denon 7.1 sound system doesn't really know what to do with them. The rest of the speakers are Klipsch but I haven't attached a sub-woofer because theoretically the LEFT and RIGHT 15" should produce more than enough bass. But the amp doesn't do that and it also doesn't have the Fletcher Munson Loudness compensation ability like our older two channel Sony.

And none of it matters with the loss of high frequency detection and Tinnitus drowning out the rest of the highs.

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Altec are some of the best you can get
 
@jcdammeyer
@Chicken lights

I have a friend who is an audiophile. He loves the vintage stuff and whenever he gets a set of old speakers he has me recap them.

Recently he got his "holy grail" speakers. To get them we had to go out of town and lift them out of an old basement. Not crazy heavy but big and well over a hundred pounds each.

That was about 2 weeks ago. Yesterday, I recapped those speakers too. Altec Model 19s. Great condition. Heard them for the first time. Amazing.

I have Altec's too. The cheap multimedia type that I use with my desktop computer. Not quite on the same level🙄
 
The cabinets themselves also colour the sound. Different from a standard Bass Reflex or other types of cabinets.

A Karlson Compendium - Part One - "A New Approach in Loudspeaker Enclosures"

A Karlson Compendium - Part One - "A New Approach in Loudspeaker Enclosures" John Edward Karlson (Feb. 4 1910 - Jan. 18, 1973) was: an inventor, radar engineer, patent holder and co-founder, along with the late Wayne Green, of a loudspeaker cabinet manufacturing company, Karlson Associates...
www.diyaudio.com www.diyaudio.com
 
It's been too long since I've messed with audio gear. I know there's certain frequency's you send to a bass driver, but not to a mid driver or a tweeter. The reason to use higher quality drivers is they "return" to neutral faster, to try to keep the notes crisp.

I'm probably failing at explaining that. If you watch a guy playing cymbals, or a triangle, they play the note but then stop the ring.

A cheap driver wallows a bit and might start the next note before its finished the first one.

It's a rabbit hole. Most people who just listen to music through ear buds don't realize they're missing 3/4" of the spectrum of how it should actually sound

Aaron Coplands Fanfare for the common man would be a good example of why you want it to be crisp
 
Chicken lights said:
It's been too long since I've messed with audio gear. I know there's certain frequency's you send to a bass driver, but not to a mid driver or a tweeter. The reason to use higher quality drivers is they "return" to neutral faster, to try to keep the notes crisp.

I'm probably failing at explaining that. If you watch a guy playing cymbals, or a triangle, they play the note but then stop the ring.

A cheap driver wallows a bit and might start the next note before its finished the first one.

It's a rabbit hole. Most people who just listen to music through ear buds don't realize they're missing 3/4" of the spectrum of how it should actually sound

Aaron Coplands Fanfare for the common man would be a good example of why you want it to be crisp
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Damping factor is one of the top line specifications, more important for bass response. Basically how well the amplifier stops the speaker from continuing to oscillate when the note stops. Amplifier must have very low output impedance or lots of negative feedback to achieve this. Most tube amps have poor damping factor while for example Crown and Phase Linear had great damping factors. The phase linear amps also a tendency to blow up earning the nickname "Flame Linear"

For example :
Sony TA-F270, damping factor 70
Phase Linear, damping factor over 300

I repaired hundreds of amplifiers and audio equipment back in the 70's-80's. Did warranty repairs for Ford car audio as well, Ford had the best service manuals I have ever experienced. Some problems I new what component to change before opening the case. Same thing with Zenith TV's back in the day. Weird funny color, remove the TI chips with the tarnished silver leads and clean them with a white eraser and reinstall, color fixed every time. Did a bunch of those back in my high school days.
 
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I have a few tubes and lots of ICs.
The small guy is an MC68HC705 micro-processor with an EPROM. Now of course they use flash memory instead but back then program, test, erase with UV lamp, reprogram with new code.

The large guy is the very first single chip 16 bit micro-processor from National Semiconductor called a PACE-16. From 1974.

And then we have the tubes...
1787004864699.png
 
Elektrishun said:
Yeah, that's just taking up way too much space. Need someone to get rid of that stuff???🙂
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I'll show you where the back of the line is for it 😛 and to be honest, much like telecom factory powerhouses are big empty caverns now considering how much thechnology has shrank footprints. Our production line has a 3 floor powerhouse that could prob fit into a single half floor. space is not an issue 😀
 
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