Alexander Deckel SO Clone

[Susquatch]

I have decided to clean the slide bar with acetone and a very fine scotch pad. The scratches look worse than they are. I'll polish it after I get it out. The part in the middle of the photo is frozen to the bar. I suspect they painted the bar and then moved the part on top of the paint.

 

[gerritv]

If the locking cotters are out of where C1 was then the only thing i can think of is to warm the casting up and add some penetrating/liquid wrench. After a while, tap towords main casting using a piece of hardwodd and mallet. Once it moves, repeat and wedge to right etc.
On mine there are seals at each end of the casting S on that main shaft.

 

[Susquatch]

Yup, that is pretty much what I have done except I was reluctant to add much heat because mine appears to have plastic seals too.

I was very gentle (It didn't budge with forces that I consider reasonable). I am going to try some penetrant on the inside via the through bolt hole.

 

[gerritv]

Just to be clear, I think the shaft lock uses a split collar. If that is still in the bolt hole nothing will move.

 

[Susquatch]

Just to be clear, I think the shaft lock uses a split collar. If that is still in the bolt hole nothing will move.

Oh......

Lemme look.

 

[Susquatch]

Just to be clear, I think the shaft lock uses a split collar. If that is still in the bolt hole nothing will move.

Yes, it does have a sleeve. But I am confused. If the purpose of lever C1 is to clamp the S Casting to the bar and loosening C1 allows the assembly to slide on the bar, then how does the sleeve lock the assembly to the bar? Shouldn't removing the lever be sufficient?

Also, the sleeve diameter appears to interfere with the bar diameter. I think the OD of the sleeve must be relieved to clear the bar. Therefore, the sleeve will never come out until the S casting is removed.

 

[Susquatch]

I think if I put the left end stud on a flat plate of steel (either against a vertical or put the grinder on end), and then hit the S casting with a ballpeen hammer against a block of hardwood held against the S-Casting, that's about as much force as can reasonably and safely be applied. I'll heat the casting and cool the bar before hitting it.

I'm getting a little disappointed so I can't stop myseIf from thinking about next steps if that doesn't work. If not, I'm thinking I'll make a big clamp for the right end of the bar and a big Puller to press or pull the S-Casting away/toward the clamp. That will be a project and a half. I wouldn't want to have to make a new S-Casting but I suppose I could if push came to shove. I'd machine it, not cast it though.

 

[gerritv]

I'll take C1 apart on Sunday, I'm just done 1/2 btl of 2013 trius red after a fabulous dinner.

 

[OliverTO]

I do not have the manual for this machine so I am unsure of what parts C1 and S are. From the picture in post 20, I assume you are trying to get the bottom section of the articulating arm to move along the main shaft. That is a precision fit and any corrosion on the bar will cause problems. If it is frozen you may need lock the cap screw on the right side casting to prevent the bar from rotating and work on getting the lower arm to rotate on the bar before it will slide along it. If I remember correctly, there are some smaller keyed brass parts in the mechanism on the left side that moves the bar left and right, these may get damaged if you are hitting towards the spindle casting. If removing the bar, it needs to be removed to the right, you can not pull on it from the right side because the plug in the end is attached to a spring inside the bar. If you look at the bar there should be a hole with a rollpin in it, the spring is attache to the rollpin.

 

[gerritv]

Details of C1, it has a split collar. Set screw is 1/16 allen key. The sleeve comes out in your direction when facing the unit.

 

[gerritv]

If all of the parts to left of 150-20 are removed, then the main shaft will limit against the casting when moving it to the left. This should be a safe position to tap against. (IMHO 150-20 is a waste of time, best replaced by an arm to set the inward limit, as described in an rticle from MEW a few years ago). And yes, the main shaft will spring back to the right if it is free in the left and right castings.

 

[gerritv]

This is the manual for those who want to play along:

 

[gerritv]

And this is the Deckel S0 parts manual, a slightly newer version but you can see how close in design they are. Also the drawings are better, no surprise there.

 

[Susquatch]

If all of the parts to left of 150-20 are removed, then the main shaft will limit against the casting when moving it to the left.

I see. I feel safer putting the small diameter at the left end of the bar against a solid backing.

IMHO 150-20 is a waste of time, best replaced by an arm to set the inward limit, as described in an rticle from MEW a few years ago.

I'm not familiar with the MEW article, but I certainly agree that the wing is a POS. I hated it when I first saw it. It's a mickey mouse contraption. I can, easily imagine lots of much better ways to do that. The casting base is very robust and a longer arm clamped to the bar with an adjustment at the end of the arm would be far superior.

But that's another project after I have it working as is.

And yes, the main shaft will spring back to the right if it is free in the left and right castings.

Yes, the shaft is free in both the left and right castings.

The micro adjustment on the left works just fine and just needs cleaning and re-oiling.

 

[Susquatch]

Details of C1, it has a split collar. Set screw is 1/16 allen key. The sleeve comes out in your direction when facing the unit.

Your photo is perfect. Mine appears to have two sleeves one at the front and one at the back. I'm not sure how to remove them or if I even need to. But I can see why you might feel that the sleeve might be what has frozen the bar and the S casting together. So maybe I'll focus some effort tomorrow on removing (or at least freeing) the sleeve.

I removed the set screw a while back. That is the story about the screw squeaking and needing a slightly bigger allen wrench.

 

[Susquatch]

@gerritv - believe it or not, I was so absorbed in your suggestion that the locking collars might be the issue that I got out of bed last night and went out to the shop to look again.

I think you have nailed the problem. The jam sleeve(s) are probably jammed against the long bar and then painted into place. Today, I have 3 grandsons here, but I am not going to involve them in this project. (Aside, all 3 wanted to come and just came for the hell of it. So we are not doing their folks a favour! The oldest is 16 with a girl friend! So amazing that they actually chose to come here and spend time with us!)

I'll take a look at how to remove the bushing/sleeve/collars whatever they are called after they are gone. For now I'd rather focus on them.

 

[Susquatch]

Bride took the whole army to town for ice-cream. No room for me.....

@gerritv - I took a few minutes while there was a lull in the excitement here. With a bit of persuasion from a simple bolt collet, the front (closest to the operator) bushing in the S casting came out. Sadly, the S casting is still not free.

I am unsure of whether there is a bushing on the backside or not. I'm reluctant to put a puller on it for fear of cracking the casting. Do you know for certain that there is or isn't a bushing in there. None of the drawings I looked at even show the front one so they are not much help.

 

[gerritv]

There is no second half to the split collar. There is grease in there, so again liquid wrench and heat might wake it up. Unlikely that paint got in there,

 

[Susquatch]

Grandkids have all gone home, and the wife has collapsed of exhaustion. That leaves the old guy free to play.

There is no second half to the split collar. There is grease in there, so again liquid wrench and heat might wake it up. Unlikely that paint got in there,

I see. That's too bad. Removing a second half to a split collar would have been easy if I knew for sure it was there.....

Heat, cooling, and liquid wrench have had no effect. I even added some liquid wrench internally where the split bushing was.

So..... Unless someone has some terrific ideas, I'm gunna take a week or more to make a puller to move the S Casting on the bar. I just don't want to impose any further physical force on the mechanisms with hammers and such.

The bar is 24mm or 15/16th. A 6 screw clamp (think rifle scope ring) ought to be able to resist just about any force imaginable for this little machine. I'm thinking about making a simple 2 bolt puller using the clamp ring as an anchor to pull the S Casting toward it. I'll make it reversable so it can pull the casting to the left or the right. Prolly take me a week to make the tool. But once done, a few back and forths like that should do it - assuming it moves......

Seems like a shame to have to make such an elaborate tool for what should be a simple task.

To start, I need to find the right junk in my junk pile, er, I mean stock bin......Looking for a piece of 1" flat plate to make the clamp with and two huge thick 1" washers to make the puller with..... Not really optimistic about finding that, but.....

 

[Susquatch]

About all I found in my scrap was some old pieces of 1/2 plate that used to be part of an old 3pt hitch impliment. It might work but not ideally cuz it will only accommodate two machine screws. I'd like three. Gotta make sure it does not move.



Found this old rusty machine axle to make puller washers out of, but in the process realized it might also make a nice 6 screw clamp with 3 screws on each side.

I'll chop a few chunks off on Monday. No idea what kind of steel it is, but it will prolly do!