A punch to the throat and a kick in the nuts has worked for me, and I am a half cripple. Threats against you from 2 bigger younger men on your doorstep thru your open door is serious. If they do so inside your house and you are afraid of harm to you or your family, it’s 12 gauge time.
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a little excitement in my day
- Thread starter Dabbler
- Start date
I have come to the unfortunate conclusion, that rather than having the various authorities involved, I will likely be better off not involving the local Law Enforcement in my troubles, I should quietly deal with the afore-mentioned troubles, without bothering them.
It seems appropriate, then, that I have roughly a mile of river frontage, plus more or less 6000 acres of private and Crown land at my disposal...for disposal...
Just lie on the top of the roof of a farm building. You'll do fine...
Knew a guy on Vancouver Island, named Kevin Lund. Out of Tahsis. Great and respectable guy! He claimed to be the runt of the litter. About 6 foot six, and 250 pounds or so. No fat... Basic oversized Viking badass.
One day, I met a few of his brothers. And wondered at 'just how large' was the stock barn off their mom's kitchen! Cause there seemed NO WAY, they could not possibly have one!
I determined, more or less, that Kev was not actually exaggerating, when he professed to be the "Runt". His brothers, by comparison to him, were frikken' HUGE!
Great guys! Found out later that they had actually collected a few debts, just by appearing...
One day, I met a few of his brothers. And wondered at 'just how large' was the stock barn off their mom's kitchen! Cause there seemed NO WAY, they could not possibly have one!
I determined, more or less, that Kev was not actually exaggerating, when he professed to be the "Runt". His brothers, by comparison to him, were frikken' HUGE!
Great guys! Found out later that they had actually collected a few debts, just by appearing...
Nope. Sorry sir, I was asleep at the time you mentioned!
Gonna get ugly here if the so called Homeless decide to squat.
It has become somewhat of an issue here. Mostly because a local Doctor decided to open the equal of a Methadone clinic, locally.
Engmaxx
(Michael)
Time to install this if you don't already have it: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B086QMNXFQ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Don't opt for the cheaper ones if you want excellent night vision, clarity, solid wi-fi connection, etc.
You can add more ring cameras around the house.
At least there is a recording plus you answer the door the way you want to. He does any damage to house, door, etc, you won't be there and you have it recorded for the authorities if it ever goes that far.
Don't opt for the cheaper ones if you want excellent night vision, clarity, solid wi-fi connection, etc.
You can add more ring cameras around the house.
At least there is a recording plus you answer the door the way you want to. He does any damage to house, door, etc, you won't be there and you have it recorded for the authorities if it ever goes that far.
historicalarms
Ultra Member
why would you limit that to just inside the house, it doesnt matter where your at ...danger is danger.
I like the idea of doorbell cameras, but not sure how well they would have worked for Dabbler. The police are not judges, and can only report and act on the evidence. A video recording might have provided a better balance of police services. But I'm not sure how well a doorbell system would work once inside the doorway and in your face.
I've been robbed twice in my early years and had a car stolen once. Over the years I've become a fan of a multi-layered independent security system with lots of redundancy. I've posted about my system on the forum before.
canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
Also on cameras here:
canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
For video surveillance, I have come to like the Arlo Wireless Cameras. I have others (Toucan, Linksys) but they don't seem to work as well as the Arlos do and I've found myself removing them as my system improves.
The batteries are re-chargeable and also last about 3 weeks to a month per charge depending on usage. They are day/night and can be set for high res. You can program them to focus on a particular area and sense vehicles and humans, filtering out animals and bugs. I got a starter kit initially but liked them so much that I have expanded my system to include two inside my barn and one outside, three inside the house and three outside. With careful placement of the hub, the wireless range is actually amazing.
Because they are wireless, you can put them almost anywhere. You can get aftermarket camo jackets for them too. This makes them easy to hide in the bushes and trees or even a pile of stone.
Currently, the biggest drawbacks are the lack of local storage, the server fees, and the video lag (prolly mostly due to my remote slow provider connection). These might have changed with the latest models. Still, they work extremely well for my needs. I used one to monitor my father while he was dying of cancer at my home, and I even mounted one on the fence to watch for the racoons that were after my Purple Martin's. They are not just for home security.
They can be programmed and monitored remotely and its easy to create modes like vacation, home, sleeping, raccoon watch, etc that can be armed and disarmed on a schedule or manually.
I use them separately to my monitored home alarm system.
Highly recommended.
I've been robbed twice in my early years and had a car stolen once. Over the years I've become a fan of a multi-layered independent security system with lots of redundancy. I've posted about my system on the forum before.
Shop - Alarm System Problems
My DSC Shop Alarm was posting errors when I opened up today. Turns out the battery bit the bullet. Prolly the recent storm and power outage. But I used it as an excuse to check out my system. Discovered that every single window sensor was NFG. I could kick them loose by toggling them with a...
Also on cameras here:
Remote camera systems
Anybody here using a remote camera system to monitor out buildings? My daughter is looking at setting up something to monitor the barn during calving season, 3or 4 cameras likely. The major problem i can see is distance from barn to her house, 3-400 yards, that may not be an issue if using a...
For video surveillance, I have come to like the Arlo Wireless Cameras. I have others (Toucan, Linksys) but they don't seem to work as well as the Arlos do and I've found myself removing them as my system improves.
The batteries are re-chargeable and also last about 3 weeks to a month per charge depending on usage. They are day/night and can be set for high res. You can program them to focus on a particular area and sense vehicles and humans, filtering out animals and bugs. I got a starter kit initially but liked them so much that I have expanded my system to include two inside my barn and one outside, three inside the house and three outside. With careful placement of the hub, the wireless range is actually amazing.
Because they are wireless, you can put them almost anywhere. You can get aftermarket camo jackets for them too. This makes them easy to hide in the bushes and trees or even a pile of stone.
Currently, the biggest drawbacks are the lack of local storage, the server fees, and the video lag (prolly mostly due to my remote slow provider connection). These might have changed with the latest models. Still, they work extremely well for my needs. I used one to monitor my father while he was dying of cancer at my home, and I even mounted one on the fence to watch for the racoons that were after my Purple Martin's. They are not just for home security.
They can be programmed and monitored remotely and its easy to create modes like vacation, home, sleeping, raccoon watch, etc that can be armed and disarmed on a schedule or manually.
I use them separately to my monitored home alarm system.
Highly recommended.
You & I, Ironman, we're gonna hafta sit down over beer some day.
BaitMaster
Super User
The aforementioned cameras would be my bet, as well as not answering the door if he comes….. with clear instructions to the wife not to as well. Limit interactions as much as possible.
Inside the house, call the police again, and be “ready” for a malevolent person to come through the door, if you know what I mean.
I would let the police handle it as much as possible. This is for convenience, and not because of fear.
Canada’s self defence laws are NOT going to be in your favour should anything happen. It WILL be a lengthy and very expensive court case if you are to use any sort of “force” even if the man is in your home. You may in the end be acquitted, or found innocent, but only after the lawyers extract about twenty pounds of flesh.
There is no penalty for letting the police handle it. If you are constrained to handle anything, your life as you know it will change.
The leniency that is given to a repeat criminal or “new Canadian” in for a serious offence will not be extended to you certainly. There are many examples of this, for the amateur researcher.
The attitude of the crown in Canada to an every day national using force against a criminal was summed up perfectly in the early 20th century by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn when he said:
“In the Criminal Code of 1926 there was a most stupid Article 139 – “on the limits of necessary self-defense” —according to which you had the right to unsheath your knife only after the criminal’s knife was hovering over you. And you could stab him only after he had stabbed you. And otherwise you would be the one put on trial. (And there was no article in our legislation saying that the greater criminal was the one who attacked someone weaker than himself.) This fear of exceeding the measure of necessary self-defense lead to total spinelessness as a national characteristic. A hoodlum once began to beat up the Red Army man Aleksandr Zakharov outside a club. Zakharov took out a folding penknife and killed the hoodlum. And for this he got….ten years for plain murder! “And what was I supposed to do?” he asked, astonished. Prosecutor Artsishevsky replied: “You should have fled!” So tell me, who creates hoodlums?”.
Inside the house, call the police again, and be “ready” for a malevolent person to come through the door, if you know what I mean.
I would let the police handle it as much as possible. This is for convenience, and not because of fear.
Canada’s self defence laws are NOT going to be in your favour should anything happen. It WILL be a lengthy and very expensive court case if you are to use any sort of “force” even if the man is in your home. You may in the end be acquitted, or found innocent, but only after the lawyers extract about twenty pounds of flesh.
There is no penalty for letting the police handle it. If you are constrained to handle anything, your life as you know it will change.
The leniency that is given to a repeat criminal or “new Canadian” in for a serious offence will not be extended to you certainly. There are many examples of this, for the amateur researcher.
The attitude of the crown in Canada to an every day national using force against a criminal was summed up perfectly in the early 20th century by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn when he said:
“In the Criminal Code of 1926 there was a most stupid Article 139 – “on the limits of necessary self-defense” —according to which you had the right to unsheath your knife only after the criminal’s knife was hovering over you. And you could stab him only after he had stabbed you. And otherwise you would be the one put on trial. (And there was no article in our legislation saying that the greater criminal was the one who attacked someone weaker than himself.) This fear of exceeding the measure of necessary self-defense lead to total spinelessness as a national characteristic. A hoodlum once began to beat up the Red Army man Aleksandr Zakharov outside a club. Zakharov took out a folding penknife and killed the hoodlum. And for this he got….ten years for plain murder! “And what was I supposed to do?” he asked, astonished. Prosecutor Artsishevsky replied: “You should have fled!” So tell me, who creates hoodlums?”.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
I appreciate your considered response, and all the responses. I appreciate all your support.
I have touched on some of these issues in real life from a young age; I had a violent family that had direct family members arrested for violent acts, and a number of police visits during my childhood (I have never been the cause).
I feel that this potentially violent situation could have only been resolved by my withdrawal, even though he resisted. Had he crossed the door threshold during this encounter, he would have had a high risk of being charged with criminal trespass.
Should he return after being informed by the police that he does not have permission to enter my property, he can be charged with simple trespass.
I've been at risk of death in more than my share of situations and have escaped by keeping my head. If there were violence, I'm sure I can handle myself in an appropriate way. When weighing the legal risk versus the immediate risk of serious injury or death, you have to act in the moment, and accept the consequences.
I've had to hang out with police quite a bit through Search and Rescue, and more than once they have suggested that defending yourself with your firearm or fetching a weapon such as a kitchen knife can imply some culpable intent. They advised me to take anything to hand to end the situation. Unfolding a pocket knife can show intent (as can carrying one if you admit it would be used in defense - a criminal act under our laws)
Important to note:
Police are not lawyers (or judges). Neither am I, or any of us that I know of. Each of use will react in our own way, and will balance the immediate and long term risks.
As far a legal bases go, I made it clear for the police that I was in fear of serious bodily harm, and the I felt an ongoing risk. They apologetically explained that they could not reduce that risk. They assured me that the act of him approaching my door is worthy of a 911 call, and they would respond to that call, given this situation. This the best outcome of this sordid event.
I have touched on some of these issues in real life from a young age; I had a violent family that had direct family members arrested for violent acts, and a number of police visits during my childhood (I have never been the cause).
I feel that this potentially violent situation could have only been resolved by my withdrawal, even though he resisted. Had he crossed the door threshold during this encounter, he would have had a high risk of being charged with criminal trespass.
Should he return after being informed by the police that he does not have permission to enter my property, he can be charged with simple trespass.
I've been at risk of death in more than my share of situations and have escaped by keeping my head. If there were violence, I'm sure I can handle myself in an appropriate way. When weighing the legal risk versus the immediate risk of serious injury or death, you have to act in the moment, and accept the consequences.
I've had to hang out with police quite a bit through Search and Rescue, and more than once they have suggested that defending yourself with your firearm or fetching a weapon such as a kitchen knife can imply some culpable intent. They advised me to take anything to hand to end the situation. Unfolding a pocket knife can show intent (as can carrying one if you admit it would be used in defense - a criminal act under our laws)
Important to note:
Police are not lawyers (or judges). Neither am I, or any of us that I know of. Each of use will react in our own way, and will balance the immediate and long term risks.
As far a legal bases go, I made it clear for the police that I was in fear of serious bodily harm, and the I felt an ongoing risk. They apologetically explained that they could not reduce that risk. They assured me that the act of him approaching my door is worthy of a 911 call, and they would respond to that call, given this situation. This the best outcome of this sordid event.
Dabbler: Your wisdom is showing! Sounds like you've had more than your fair share of difficult situations in your life, and some meaningful interactions wth the cops. Sounds to me like you applied that lifetime of wisdom to this situation. Sorry you had to face it. And I worry about the kid too.
On the other side of that coin, there's frequently no results, either.
No, they are not. By why do they insist on pretending that they are? My brother was recently assured by a couple of the Queen's Horsemen that they had seen a particular legal document that another family member was brandishing about, that all was in order and he had no need to see it. Excuse me?!
I've never been a proponent of ACAB, but after a lifetime of experience w/ their arrogant, fragile egos, I'm getting close...
Ah, yes. When seconds count, the cops are hours away. Especially in a domestic situation.
Sorry for the negativity, but there's just too much experience to the contrary in my past. I hope that 911 call is never required.
There's some good cops.
A friend of mine caught a couple guys in his house. When the police finally did show up, he was in the middle of hanging a beating on one of them. The cops told him to let them know when he was done. They took the bad guys away, likely to the hospital or morgue maybe, and my buddy never had any issues as a result of these guys falling down while running away.....
A friend of mine caught a couple guys in his house. When the police finally did show up, he was in the middle of hanging a beating on one of them. The cops told him to let them know when he was done. They took the bad guys away, likely to the hospital or morgue maybe, and my buddy never had any issues as a result of these guys falling down while running away.....
While I have no sympathy for invader, and lack of punishment is often disgusting, that story itself illustrates the wrong ..... the cops should not be deciding which laws to enforce or not. We should have reasonable enough laws that they are enforced equally for all.
The other thing in all this is the fluke, you know, the one punch causes the guy to hit his and die. It happens ..... then you get a 10 stay at the crowbar hotel for manslaughter. Or the guy is a psycho and burns your house down in the middle of the night. No thanks, handle these like adults going by the book, not kids on the playground, regardless of how tempting it might be.
I don't have a problem with a homeowner being able to defend his property. I have a BIG problem with homeowners being prosecuted when punks decide to commit these types of crimes. He didn't ask them to break in. In my opinion this particular situation was handled the way it should have been.