I realize that's likely a FWD car, but on anything RWD driveline angle IS important. There's some witchcraft that without some angle the ujoint needles stop spinning correctly
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Several Regions have held meetups already, but others are being planned or are evaluating the interest. The Calgary Area Meetup is set for Saturday July 12th at 10am. The signup thread is here! Arbutus has also explored interest in a Fraser Valley meetup but it seems members either missed his thread or had other plans. Let him know if you are interested in a meetup later in the year by posting here! Slowpoke is trying to pull together an Ottawa area meetup later this summer. No date has been selected yet, so let him know if you are interested here! We are not aware of any other meetups being planned this year. If you are interested in doing something in your area, let everyone know and make it happen! Meetups are a great way to make new machining friends and get hands on help in your area. Don’t be shy, sign up and come, or plan your own meetup!
2002 VW Golf refurb
- Thread starter David
- Start date
I really just want to know why people do it. Is it some kind of age related looks preference, a fad, or some function I don't understand? I can list lots reasons why it's a bad idea from a functional standpoint. But I don't understand why people even want do it?
I think that trend must be intended to tilt the driver back far enough so their pants don't fall down around the pedals when they hit the brakes.
Race cars are often lowered for improved center of gravity (and have the steering geometry adjusted accordingly). I'm pretty sure it started as people modifying their cars for racing and then others were trying to get that look. That look became it's own thing and continued from there. Same with super-low profile tires and spoilers. If you want to see the trend pushed to 11 look up "bosozoku".
Similar but different is velodrome bicycles (or "track bike") and the gradual transition to "fixies".
I have no explanation for that truck thing. I'll just say it isn't to my taste and I'm pretty sure it's horrifically dangerous, especially to any pedestrians they won't be able to see.
I lowered my Datsun 510 with shorter/stiffer springs and thicker front and additional rear sway bar along with different shock absorbers. But I also changed the pivot points to bring the camber back into line so the wider tires sat flat on the ground.
It went around pylons on the slalom course much faster without the inside rear wheel lifting off the ground.
Unless you have a posi-lock differential the moment the tire lifts it starts to spin and forward speed slows until the wheel drops.
FatherWes
Wes
I can almost understand the lowering if the suspension is suitably tuned and the car is going to be raced on a track. I might 'like' the lowered look, but living with it in my world would be a nightmare. Such is the difference between being 15 and 65...
This one (aka Donks) I just don't get, period. To each their own, but, really??
This one (aka Donks) I just don't get, period. To each their own, but, really??
This was a joke btw
I actually just bought some new "coil overs" for my Miata (yes I know the factory setup is technically a "coil over damper" as well but thats the name the aftermarket industry has co-opted for the adjustable ones they sell).
My plan isn't to change ride height, yet. My butt is already only ~5" off the ground, any lower and I feel I will be the guy stuck on a speed bump in a parking lot or stuck getting onto the road out of a steep driveway. Also, while not a giant I do find climbing out of the car a touch challenging - especially if someone parks too close to me.
But I do want to play with the suspension. It can become a nice track car and I'll give up some (maybe alot?) of its ride comfort in exchange for better cornering performance.
Who knows, might actually ride better than it does now - I certainly can feel every bump already so maybe the OEM / original shocks have given up after 190000kms?
To Sus' point, the factory optimized for a certain ride, including height. We can modify from there, and as enthusiasts we're not concerned with warranty failure rates, or looking to have our cars sell vs the competitors. We can do what we want (within reason - some things should / are just illegal due to how unsafe they are on a road).
My plan isn't to change ride height, yet. My butt is already only ~5" off the ground, any lower and I feel I will be the guy stuck on a speed bump in a parking lot or stuck getting onto the road out of a steep driveway. Also, while not a giant I do find climbing out of the car a touch challenging - especially if someone parks too close to me.
But I do want to play with the suspension. It can become a nice track car and I'll give up some (maybe alot?) of its ride comfort in exchange for better cornering performance.
Who knows, might actually ride better than it does now - I certainly can feel every bump already so maybe the OEM / original shocks have given up after 190000kms?
To Sus' point, the factory optimized for a certain ride, including height. We can modify from there, and as enthusiasts we're not concerned with warranty failure rates, or looking to have our cars sell vs the competitors. We can do what we want (within reason - some things should / are just illegal due to how unsafe they are on a road).
They put rims on everything in the USA. It could be a 1997 Cavalier and it'll have rims. I'll take a donk over a 4 door Dodge neon with a huge trunk spoiler and a extra large exhaust can for his 4 banger
You can even rent to own rims and tires down there
The struts on my 02 with 277,000 kms were so done that the rod just fell into the strut. Zero resistance.
Tom O
Ultra Member
Ah memories… Remember that old commercial
“You Got Oversize Tires Boy?”
Well, I respect your right to an opinion, but there are many other factors at play beside the obvious.
The factory didn't just optimize for a certain ride including height. They also optimized for crash safety, impact energy absorption, fuel efficiency, vehicle frame and suspension durability, handling, comfort (for the target vehicle market), etc etc.
The minute you change ride height in the pursuit of personal preferences, you compromise a thousand other factors you didn't even know about.
I am a firm proponent of leaving what I bought alone when it comes to anything related to steering and suspension. In fact, I don't even mess with tires.
I respect your viewpoint, but in my mind you can't optimize for crash safety around a ±1" change in ride height. You can in terms of a standardized test, but considering the vast differences in vehicles on the road its impossible. I'm pretty sure that if a F350 SuperDuty crashed into me with any real energy, I'm pretty much toast, regardless of my or their ride height being stock or altered, but who knows - if they raise their truck enough and I lower mine maybe I would pass right under without a scratch!
Also, in engineering you know you can't optimize for everything all at once. What you are doing is finding the optimum compromise for all the various requirements. Again as car enthusiasts we mostly don't care about lots of the items listed - 0.5% change in fuel efficiency won't be noticed by a non-daily driver, durability - well its already 22 years old - if I make it wear out in the next 10 years I'd be surprised as its likely to get ~5000km a year, etc.
We really are making trade offs between a much smaller set of requirements: handling, ride comfort, tire wear and for some, looks.
Also, in engineering you know you can't optimize for everything all at once. What you are doing is finding the optimum compromise for all the various requirements. Again as car enthusiasts we mostly don't care about lots of the items listed - 0.5% change in fuel efficiency won't be noticed by a non-daily driver, durability - well its already 22 years old - if I make it wear out in the next 10 years I'd be surprised as its likely to get ~5000km a year, etc.
We really are making trade offs between a much smaller set of requirements: handling, ride comfort, tire wear and for some, looks.
Thank you for challenging that. But actually, yes you can, and they do.
Most people think the manufacturers develop, test, and certify to standardized tests to satisfy government regulations. Once upon a long time ago, they did. But those times are long gone. I retired 20 years ago. Even then, computer simulations using CAE had allowed the manufacturer to run millions of simulated computer crashes changing as many variables as they wanted to. Actual crashes were only used to validate and calibrate the models.
When people ask me to pick the single biggest safety advance in a modern vehicle, I always tell them that it is CAE. Very large supercomputers that were once the sole realm of the military are now the heart and soul of modern vehicle development.
Not only that, but CAE has made it possible to test a million accident scenarios varying speed, load, occupant size & position, angles, road condition, etc. as well as all the many variables associated with the crash target.
If you look at accident survival rates you will note a very steep decline in fatalities and injuries even without regulatory changes. Automotive engineers have families and friends just like everyone else. They care.
So yes, 1 inch is actually a pretty big change and well within the realm of modern vehicle optimization.
DPittman
Ultra Member
I still drive a minivan (please don't make fun of me) and I actually really like the vehicle but the low ground clearance it has is it's greatest downfall in my opinion. I think it would look better too higher off the ground.
Well, there are some people willing to give Elon 140K for a Cyber truck.