Windows Networking question

[jcdammeyer]

Just in case someone might know the answer to this. Here's my ARTISAN workgroup view from my old WIN-XP PC.

The Samba Home Assistant, Pi4 LinuxCNC and Octopi are all Raspberry Pi computers running Linux. The interesting (or maybe not) is the Flipper-v which runs WIN-10 and Corsair-2 which runs WIN-10.

Here's a view from the HP Laptop running WIN-10. Also 8 machines with way less description. Makes WIN-XP look nicer here.

And then we have the WIN-10 Corsair. Oh my... what happened to the Raspberry Pi modules running Linux and the WHS-2003 (running a version of WIN-XP)?

Other than the missing devices the other difference is the tsclient only visible in the workstation WIN-10 system. They are both running WIN-10 yet one has that odd problem of not finding the other devices.

Not only that each of the machines has no trouble accessing folders of each machine. For example the CORSAIR WIN-10 system doesn't see the SERVER but has no trouble getting to the folders.

If I have the IP number I can still get at the folders as presented by SAMBA share. Here's the OctoPi Linux.

So why does one WIN-10 system work properly and the other not?

 

[Susquatch]

If you ever figure this out I'd love to know the answer. It has always seemed to me that windows discovery simply doesn't work right. That problem goes way way way back.

The only solution that has half assed worked for me was to define explicit IP addresses and then use those instead of the windows names. But even that isn't foolproof. Sometimes a given pc absolutely refuses to see another one.

 

[slow-poke]

So why does one WIN-10 system work properly and the other not?

It seems MS has little to no interest in fixing bugs, the same annoying bugs persist for decades and migrate from one version to the next. Clearly MS has other priorities.

Further if you Google search a bug, there will be countless links to work arounds that often work initially but then stop working after a few updates. I have yet to find a single useful bug report fix from MS, the moment I get directed to an official MS fix, I just go back and look for a non MS solution because the official MS fixes NEVER work.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

The network at my old job was a house of cards, and with every update became more and more of a pain to maintain. All the CNC's were drip fed from old cheap computers, some XP, some NT, one windows 7, etc....you get the picture. All our workstations were windows 10, or 11, and it seemed every updated would jack around with the network settings so that we lost connections to all the CNC computers. As you can imagine, that would cause quite a PITA. Thankfully we had a good local computer guy that was always a phonecall away, because everytime stuff like this happened I lost patience and knowledge to fix it lol.

I would love to setup a home network and server, but everytime I think about it I get PTSD and quickly move on from that thought......I don't understand how people can enjoy tinkering and playing with computers like this. I become this guy pretty quick when it comes to this stuff anymore

 

[gerritv]

The issue most likely is that SMB 1.0 is deprecated and at some point was disabled due to security issues (as in the entire NHS in UK going down because their IT ppl didn't bother upgrading from XP!)
In windows, go to Control Panel/Feautres and turn on SMB1. There are also settings in Samba (it prefers the insecure SMB1 by default) but as usual in Linux they are touchy and poorly explained.

You will also have expected challenges if some of your machines are on a Public network instead of Private. Preferably in your home they should all be Private with sharing enabled (and sharing disabled for Public networks). And again Samba is a pita for this as well.

 

[Susquatch]

I would love to setup a home network and server, but everytime I think about it I get PTSD and quickly move on from that thought......I don't understand how people can enjoy tinkering and playing with computers like this. I become this guy pretty quick when it comes to this stuff anymore

Too funny Dan!

I do have a full home network with a file server. It can definitely stretch the limits of my anger management. Instead of a guy beating his computer, picture a bull moose ripping apart an entire office.

 

[jcdammeyer]

I too read about SMB1 being deprecated. But WIN-XP works as does WIN-10 on my laptop but not WIN-10 on my workstation. I can't try the WIN-7 system at the moment because it's being restored from Windows Home Server due to some sort of disk error. But that machine is also 15 years old and may well have power supply or CPU board filter capacitor issues.

I need to have WIN-7 running so I can still use my ICD-3 in circuit debuggers with Microchip PIC programming. Microchip decided it wasn't worth registering that model with WIN-10 and instead sold everyone ICD-4's at $450 or so. (Me included because of work-work).

The WIN-10 workstation, now that I see this problem, has had other odd network issues that didn't exist on the laptop WIN-10.

I'm reaching out to a few other sources and I'll report back what I find.

 

[jcdammeyer]

And to make things even more mysterious, years ago I bought a surplus Lenovo from the BC Gov. Surplus Outlet. It had WIN-7 but I did something wrong and it mysteriously updated to WIN-10. Not a big deal. I was planning on using it for my Light-O-Rama and Vixen light show software for Christmas lighting. Haven't done that for over 5 years and no interest at the moment. Plus I have an older XP system that is still set up for it anyway.

I want to upgrade my LinuxCNC from 2.8 to the latest 2.9.4 so I can add SAMBA and tie it into the network. Rather than upgrade the even older Lenovo I thought I'd burn an ISO DVD and just install it on this newer Lenovo.

Anyway to get to the point I first powered it up and added the network cable to it. And there you have it. This WIN-10 system also shows my entire network. So there is something drastically different on my main WIN-10 workstation.

Oh and now that my WIN-7 system (called CORSAIR) has been restored from Windows Home Server (Full backup including OS and hidden partitions) it now works again and also shows the entire map.

 

[Susquatch]

So there is something drastically different on my main WIN-10 workstation.

Yup. My systems are similar. Some find everything, some find less. I even had one that wouldn't find anything. Good luck finding whatever it is causing it.

 

[gerritv]

Make sure they are all on the same Workgroup, and all are on Private with file sharing on.

I upgraded a long time ago from Windows Home Server to Server 2012 R2 and DriveBender for file replication.

 

[jcdammeyer]

Make sure they are all on the same Workgroup, and all are on Private with file sharing on.

I upgraded a long time ago from Windows Home Server to Server 2012 R2 and DriveBender for file replication.

I do have an newer copy of Windows Home Server 2011 but never did upgrade. Thing is I'm not so much interested in a user file back-up system as what WHS does for me which is if the hard drive crashes one inserts a new hard drive of the same or larger size and then boots off a CD which asks which computer to restore. If the back-up was from, say yesterday, then when it's finished doing the restore the entire disk image is as it was. All the files are there, all the licenses for software, even the icons are in the same spot on the screen.

Other than delay for the restore it's like the machine never died. Needless to say it doesn't work as well with newer hardware anymore.

 

[jcdammeyer]

This feature was already enabled on the problem WIN-10 machine. However compared to the laptop what wasn't switched on was the telnet client. I clicked on that. The system went through a looking for files sequence. I then rebooted and now the machines are all visible.

It's possible the Telnet wasn't required but the applying changes dialog then 'fixed' something: This now matches the laptop and this web page:

https://tachytelic.net/2019/09/windows-10-enable-smb1/

 

[mickeyf]

But that machine is also 15 years old and may well have power supply or CPU board filter capacitor issues.

OOo! Sounds like someone is buying the Standard Microsoft Disinformation - "Blame the hardware"!

No, really, I understand all to well how hardware can go fail, but I don't think the symptoms indicate that...

 

[ChazzC]

Whenever our IT guy was having network issues he would get annoyed with me when I reminded him that there was a reason that Apple didn’t offer Networking Management training but MicroSoft did . . .

 

[jcdammeyer]

OOo! Sounds like someone is buying the Standard Microsoft Disinformation - "Blame the hardware"!

No, really, I understand all to well how hardware can go fail, but I don't think the symptoms indicate that...

Actually capacitors do age. I even have an instrument that will measure the resistance (ESR) of a capacitor. Way back there's a thread on the group here where the fridge VFD controller failed. Long story short after I pulled the suspect caps and measured them compared to brand new ones. They were about 30 ohms compared to about 0.4 Ohms IIRC. And when I put the new ones into the controller the VCC went from a very low voltage to the target expected voltage. Don't remember the values but capacitors used in any sort of switching environment can be faulty and cause odd problems.

 

[gerritv]

Whenever our IT guy was having network issues he would get annoyed with me when I reminded him that there was a reason that Apple didn’t offer Networking Management training but MicroSoft did . . .

that is likely because you can't build a real network with Apple devices (airport express etc). Our church tried, failed expensively. Back to Windows Server and Ubiquiti.

 

[Tecnico]

Actually capacitors do age. I even have an instrument that will measure the resistance (ESR) of a capacitor. Way back there's a thread on the group here where the fridge VFD controller failed. Long story short after I pulled the suspect caps and measured them compared to brand new ones. They were about 30 ohms compared to about 0.4 Ohms IIRC. And when I put the new ones into the controller the VCC went from a very low voltage to the target expected voltage. Don't remember the values but capacitors used in any sort of switching environment can be faulty and cause odd problems.

+1

I’ve resurrected umpteen electronic devices with failed electrolytic caps. Computers, power supplies, monitors, routers, more than I can count. My dual desktop monitors & both of my shop monitors are rescued, failed units. Any electronics that fail or act up are suspect.

Interesting to note that there seems to be an era where this became an issue. The legend says it started when the “recipe” for the electrolyte was stolen and cloned on mainland China. OTOH I have other older electronics that just keep going.

There’s even a forum dedicated to equipment with cap failure, at badcaps.com

D

 

[ChazzC]

that is likely because you can't build a real network with Apple devices (airport express etc). Our church tried, failed expensively. Back to Windows Server and Ubiquiti.

Airport is soo last decade:

AirPort Express - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you really want to go ancient, I built numerous AppleTalk networks:

AppleTalk: Understanding the Legacy Networking Protocol for Apple Devices - NETWORK ENCYCLOPEDIA

Explore the history and architecture of AppleTalk, the foundational networking protocol for early Apple devices, and its evolution.

networkencyclopedia.com

Limited distance, but since the RJ-11 configuration took advantage of the unused pins/conductors in telephone wires so connecting workstations to printers, etc. was easy.

Now I just use WiFi and iCloud.