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why some people never get covid, finally some clarity
- Thread starter Dabbler
- Start date
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
not surprising because with every viral pathogen there are those who just don't get sick and it has long been assumed there is a genetic component as to why.
what is cool though is that researchers are now able to identify the role specific genes play in marshalling the immune response and the specific genes that are responsible, at least in the case of covid.
of course to view this break through from both sides this raises two potential issues;
firstly there will be those who unethically use crispr to alter the human genome to protect a loved one, without regard for potential consequences
secondly there will be those govts who try to design even better biological weapons or vaccine countermeasures for their existing biological weapons.
This is a common misunderstanding that dances around how vaccines work. They don't prevent you from getting Covid.
Anyone reading this is welcome to ignore my comments if they prefer. We can always agree to disagree. I only present them from the perspective of medical science in a sincere attempt to explain what vaccines and other measures are all about.
I like to read medical research as originally written by the researchers themselves. I don't like to read a journalist's interpretation. From the medical research I've read, none of the vaccines were intended to provide total protection from getting Covid. Although that would have been nice, it isn't realistic for the covid pathogen. At best, most vaccines only give the body a headstart at producing antibodies to fight the infection when and if it arrives. Most people still get Covid but the symptoms are greatly reduced because the body recognizes the pathogen right away, knows what it is targeting, starts fighting early, and is able to overpower the infection earlier in its cycle before it can make you seriously ill or kill you.
For someone like me with respiratory compromises caused by a dozen rounds of pneumonia, it has meant the difference between just getting sick, and getting really sick and potentially dying. Avoiding an infection altogether is obviously better. That's what isolation, distancing, and masking was all about. Normally, distancing and masking are very effective for most airborne pathogens. But covid proved to be more aggressive than these measures could totally control. Although they did help, it is clear now that isolation was a much more effective control strategy.
I'd like to try a non-scientific analogy (for the first time). Think of your body as a medieval castle. It has its vulnerabilities - doors, gates, windows, and open roof. It also has its defenses. Your antibodies are like the soldiers that defend your castle. If they are all sleeping when the enemy attacks, your fortress is easily invaded before you even know you have been attacked, and you might be killed.
A much better defense is trained soldiers that know how to recognize the enemy and how to fight them before they come. When they do, the battle is short. A vaccine trains your body's antibodies to recognize the enemy and how to fight them.
Masks and distancing are designed to catch the enemy before he can get in to do any damage. This did work but the enemy was cunning and often avoided getting caught.
Best of all is a moat that isolates your castle from the outside world so the enemy never gets a chance to even try to do anything. That's what isolation was all about.
Ironman
Ultra Member
Distancing works. Due to the size of the virus a mask is as effective as a chain link fence on your face, (but more comfortable) and is excellent virtue signalling.
Isolating the sick is a time test method of disease inhibiting procedure, but putting them in to recover with elderly people(New York State) is not.
Isolating the healthy is never a good policy, IMHO.
Isolating the sick is a time test method of disease inhibiting procedure, but putting them in to recover with elderly people(New York State) is not.
Isolating the healthy is never a good policy, IMHO.
Hopefully, we can agree to disagree on that one.
dave_lawson@
Active Member
As I've been saying all along, no vaccine is a "force field". The vaccine has no effect on the virus until you are infected, at which point it has enabled an accelerated response to reduce the effect of the infection. In some cases it might eliminate the virus quickly enough that it never takes hold, there are no symptoms, and it's possible you don't even test positive for it.
As for masked and distancing, that certainly reduced the infection rate carried by large droplets which can be caught by the mask. Even a 50% reduction in spread has a meaningful beneficial impact.
Anyway...this is all rather "the same story all over again" in my mind. We all need to take care of ourselves and others, giving a little when it cost little.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
Some falsely claim that masking virtue signaling but they clearly do not understand the reason for masking mandates. Masking is designed to reduce viral shedding by those infected with covid and thereby minimize the risk of those who believe they're healthy of infecting others. Prior to masking mandates every major outbreak started with an infected person who thought they were healthy attending an event...
Masking works because it stops the majority of microdroplets as well as all large droplets. Masking reduces the viral load within a given space to a level that greatly reduces the risk to all occupants within the space.
While the main purpose of masking is not to protect the wearer quality, properly fitted certified masks indeed provides the wearer with significant protection against viruses and a horde of other respiratory threats.
masking and vaccines are a belt and suspenders approach at prevention that work very well when employed properly. With reduced exposure levels our bodies defenses, from our mucosal membranes, nasal hairs and cilia, to our t cells etc can eliminate any low viral dose we are exposed to before the virus can replicate and infect the individual.
in addition before leveling the virture signaling insult against someone in a mask people should consider that many individuals cannot take mRNA vaccines (and cannot obtain non mRNA vaccines) due to comorbidities which the vaccine may exacerbate in in some individuals, such as those with autoimmune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, etc since in some people the vaccine can trigger a flare up that can be as deadly as covid would be to such patients. I've been on an extended hiatus from covid vaccines for almost a year for just this reason because Canada currently has no alternatives vaccine.
IgG4 Antibodies Induced by Repeated Vaccination May Generate Immune Tolerance to the SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein
Less than a year after the global emergence of the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, a novel vaccine platform based on mRNA technology was introduced to the market. Globally, around 13.38 billion COVID-19 vaccine doses of diverse platforms have been administered. ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
An interesting read that was just sent to me.
trlvn
Ultra Member
Exactly.
My Mom suffered from COPD for 10 years and ended up in hospital quite a number of times. Invariably in isolation. To visit her. we would be required to don mask, gown, gloves and booties. All of this was to reduce the chance of giving HER another infection. It had nothing to do with protecting us from whatever she was sick with at that time.
People in Japan have been masking in public for years. That fits with their culture as they care about others; especially seniors.
Craig
1. I have a very dim view of researchers who write papers which do not publish any of their own research. This paper merely uses other research papers (a so-called literature review) to support their own paper and does not publish any new research.
2. Nonetheless, a careful read of the paper reveals that the author(s) merely remind the reader that the vaccine is imperfect. In so doing, they make perfection the enemy of the good. We have always known that none of the vaccines developed to date are perfect. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be used or that using them was a bad decision. However, we do know that there are individuals who shouldn't. Although we know a lot more about that today, the primary problem we still face even today is identifying just exactly who those individuals are. Thankfully, they are the extreme exception.
3. The paper highlights the diminished returns of multiple inoculations as though that is some new revelation. However, reduced efficacy is not only expected, but also a rather obvious predictable outcome.
4. If the author mentioned that new vaccines can target new variants, I missed it.
My castle model is obviously imperfect in its own way. While I think it does a good job of explaining the various mechanisms of infection protection, it fails miserably in describing the need to protect castle outsiders from infection from the castle too.
As @TorontoBuilder and others have reminded us, the primary role of masking has little to do with keeping the wearer safe. It is mostly about protecting others from being infected by the wearer. I did get a good chuckle out of @Ironman's chain link fence analogy. Ya, there is some truth in that in regard to protection for the wearer. Even N95 masks are not perfect in that regard. But that discussion misses the point. Masks are primarily intended to protect other people from any viral load breathed out by an infected individual. Because large droplets travel so much further than small ones, any mask is infinitely better than none.
I've tested and retested myself constantly but always had negative tests despite direct exposure to others around me like my partner who was hit badly by it.
My elderly father who lives with me has been hospitalized for the last 2 months due to covid and almost died. He's coming out next week but will now require oxygen. Stay safe everyone.
My elderly father who lives with me has been hospitalized for the last 2 months due to covid and almost died. He's coming out next week but will now require oxygen. Stay safe everyone.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
I hate to say "actually" but actually small microdroplets travel further, and they in fact will fail to settle out of air in rooms.
As microdroplets circulate on the smallest air current they also become smaller as the accompanying H2O evaporates. The longer the microdroplets circulate the drier the viral payload and the greater the risk of adhesion to the mucosal membrane when inhaled.
But even an unfitted n95 masks blocks 98% of the viral load from escaping and becoming airborne.
As for mask wearers in non-medical situations, those who always wear a n95 or better mask have greater than 80% reduction in risk of infection versus those who do not wear a mask when in enclosed public spaces.
In medical and care facilities the wearers are exposed to much higher viral loads particularly of the droplet nuclei variety that remain suspended in the air for hours and that can penetrate masks, as well as by other modes of transmission such as direct contact with conjuntiva and mucosal membrane. This is why results of studies in healthcare environments dont translate to studies conducted among the general populace
Read or listen to this book and you might share my new dim view of 'researchers who write papers'. The numbers & extent & game in general is actually quite disturbing.
Science Fictions: How Fraud, Bias, Negligence, and Hype Undermine the Search for Truth by Stuart Ritchie
Yes, good catch. There has been a lot of research done on that. Initially, they thought that the covid virus couldn't survive in small droplets for very far. Hence the 6ft spacing. Turns out that nasty bug can survive a ventilation duct trip from one story to another.
My point was that wearing a mask is mostly about reducing the chances of someone with the virus, inadvertently spreading it to others.
Ironman
Ultra Member
I agree about N95 masks. Oh, yeah. Those are the ones that we gave 16 tons of to the Chinese, and had none for us, but we bought inferior masks back from them.
Well I'll take that back. They are not inferior when used for the right purpose. I use them for dipstick wipers and they work wonderfully.