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Where to get good used mill

Susquatch

Susquatch

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I had a very old late 1800s 6x48"lathe and a Beaver Drill Press with top and bottom bearings on the quill that I added an x-y table to use as a mill/drill before I retired.

When I retired from industry, we bought a farm and found myself doing a lot of repairs and fabricating for my neighbours and I. A few years later I bought a relatively new 14x36 lathe and a very old mill. The mill is so old that it has no manufacturers data on it. It's probably an early offshore unit because both spool markings on the table have 110 graduations per turn (yup a royal pain). But on the plus side, it came with a lot of old tooling that I've put to good use over the last decade. It has an mt3 quill and even an aftermarket motorized table feed. But I had to make a new pinion gear for the head lift (the old one was missing a tooth and had to be removed and replaced every time the crank was turned 300 degrees) and it's not very solid and can't handle a heavy load without complaining bitterly.

So I recently decided that it's time to consider upgrading the mill to something better. I did a google search on the BusyBee mills to check for user problems etc. before I seriously considered a purchase. That's how I found this forum. I immediately joined and this is my very first post. I'm sure there will be many more in the years to come and even more replies to the posts that others make. (insert evil grin here)

In the post that Google found (which I can't link to because the forum won't let new users use links - sorry about that) the member was wondering about the quality of the busy bee machines and users here were advocating readily available used machines of better quality and lower cost. What is not to love about that!!!

But that brings me to my question. I've looked in vain for years for good used mills. Where and how does one find these gems?

Any quick (or comprehensive) recommendations from other members? Any and all advice/help is greatly appreciated.
 
@YYCHM : there is a bit of a line up - LOL and I am not moving stuff out of basements - LOL One and done!

Right now on the search for a few mills - big thing is: If it pops on Kijiji and it looks like a decent deal, you have to go in full purchase and pick it up quick. Already got a few burns on mills that guys were selling then jacked the price up after they had a few offers. Typically you get the one call or communication and that is it.
 
YYCHM said:
Ontario shouldn't be a problem sourcing a used mill. Alberta on the other hand is a waste land.

This one is still out there Milling Machine Vertical | Other Business & Industrial | St. Catharines | Kijiji

What size mill are you looking for?

@Brent H can probably link you up and even help you move it LOL:p
Click to expand...

What size is a good question. I can handle a fairly big machine in my shop thick cement floor and 20ft ceiling. But I'm not fond of floor mazes. I was prepared to settle for a small one like the BusyBee 601/611 but much prefer something more solid and rigid. But I'm not really keen on a huge industrial unit. How do you guys usually rate the size? Eg Lathes are typically swing and distance between centers. I've always thought mills were usually rated by bed size. My current Mill is not a big one but it does have a large bed. My typical applications are making fixtures and medium sized parts. Right now I'm making a GPS system for tractor guidance. Aside from the electrical and electronics, the main work is making brackets, antenna posts, housings, and fixtures. My next planned job is to repair the shear bolt mount on a ripper blade (1-1/2 plate about 40" long and 16" wide at the top). The existing hole is badly damaged. It just needs a bigger hole bored in it to regain the proper center location and then bushed to take the right size shear bolt.

The one in the photo you sent seems bigger than I wanted and in really rough condition. It's also 550v which I don't currently have. I could get or make a converter, but don't really want to. I have 60A 220 available. Frankly, anybody who puts a big lathe steady rest on the floor like that isn't looking after their equipment. Gotta wonder why it's still for sale.

But I get the idea.

Thank you.
 
Brent H said:
@YYCHM : there is a bit of a line up - LOL and I am not moving stuff out of basements - LOL One and done!

Right now on the search for a few mills - big thing is: If it pops on Kijiji and it looks like a decent deal, you have to go in full purchase and pick it up quick. Already got a few burns on mills that guys were selling then jacked the price up after they had a few offers. Typically you get the one call or communication and that is it.
Click to expand...

I'm not moving any thing out of a basement either. I did that with my first lathe. I won't do it again. But, I do have a 24' flatbed and a 2500 truck to tow it. I'd prolly have to rent something to get a big mill onto my trailer, but I have a loader tractor and an overhead crane on my end that can both handle 2 tons.

So basically, Watch Kijiji, don't try and haggle, and snap up the first good one?

Wish they had auctions for such things. I love farm auctions but they are not auctioning off mills.

Although everybody loves a great deal, I'd be prepared to buy a good refurbished one from someone with a good reputation. The only downside from my perspective is that an individual sale might come with some decent tooling.
 
Susquatch, I think that more than one strategy played all at once gives you the best chances. I'd keep posting on forums like this, checking Kijiji, auctions, going to used machinery dealers, going to friendly shops, etc.

This works if you want the best fit at the best price. It will probably find you a surprise machine that happens to fit your needs.

However I have the view that one should 'get one you can use below budget' while looking for the 'my perfect machine' and then sell the starter machine. This is not $ optimal. --but-- it gets you making chips during the perhaps 2 or 3 year wait for the perfect machine. You can think of it as machine rental during the search time, if you lose money at all. On all my sold machines, I've either broken even or lost a marginal amount. After all, I'm not in this for a living. I don't look to make a profit, but rather minimize my hassle.
 
@Susquatch : keep an eye on kijiji and see what is available - here is some advice based on what I know about mills and using them at home:

1. Voltage: Industrial mills come mostly in at 575 V 3 phase as it was a popular voltage in early years. This will make VFD use expensive and not necessarily worth it. You can also use a phase converter/MG set up and that may work fine - it will add to the cost. Mills with 440/240 can be VFD driven and that can save additional funds
2. If you find a 575 Volt mill that is speed adjusted through pullies - this type is easier to change out the motor to either single phase or 3 phase 220 Volt and then control speed with a VFD. A variable speed mill with a shot motor can be expensive as the motor is "special" with an extended shaft and not easy to locate at a cheap price. The machine can be converted but is a bit more intense due to the way the drive is operated/fitted.
3. If you have (and you do) the ability to load/off load - pick up the mill you have a great advantage over other Kijiji shoppers. Many places will load it or have a means to load it if you are ready and set to take it.
4. Bridge port type mills have lots and lots of parts available so some slop or say excessive backlash may not be a big deal as you can replace parts at typically reasonable money ( I changed out my x and y axis nuts and spindles for about $500 and the mill is like new. A couple other items for 30 - $50 and no complaints) Biggest deal breaker would be a badly mangled table or the mill is worn beyond reasonable repair - spindle run out, gibs are shot, ways are worn to the point that you are over the tolerable level of precision you need for your hobby. I looked at one and you could pull the table side to side about 2 inches and the gib was tight - I passed
5. Collets: R8 is typical, easiest to find, cheapest. 5C or Morse Taper are out there and can be found and supported. Brown and Sharp - not so popular and very hard to find. The larger mills with NMTB, ISO, CAT, BT 30, 40, 50 etc are all supported still - collet or collet holders are more costly due to the size.
If you can get a date with a seller and look over the machine - perfect, bring the gear to haul it away if you like it as it will probably not be there for a second look - sad but true.

Some other guys can add to the list..........
 
Sometimes you can find a mill by accident while looking at other stuff. Last week I found some small machinist stuff on Kijiji. When I went to pick it up I found it was a machinist shop where they had to move or potentially even go out of business. He had about 4 milling machines in his shop. When I expressed interest in the machines he offered to sell me one for a very reasonable price even though they were not advertised. If I'd had the money I would have bought it! There's lots of older manual milling machines on the market in Ontario. Kijiji and Facebook's Marketplace are the best places to look that I know of.
 
When I bought my mill the ad had been up for about 10 minutes, I was the first caller and showed up with my truck and cash and brought it home.
Canadium said:
He had about 4 milling machines in his shop
Click to expand...
Sounds like it could be an opportunity for a local member to acquire a mill.
 
In ON there should not be an issue to get quality machine for a low price within few months of looking. Since you already have a mill there is no need for a quick buy.

You absolutely need to decide on size and set a plus or minus sizing. It would help to know what you have right now that is very old / too small.

BP clone shown is not a big machine. Generally in the 2000-2500 lbs range. You can easily find them on ON in 240v 3ph.

You need to decide on machine shape. And realistic budget.

Then hit Kajiji, FB, local auctions, some dealers.

You should have new to you mill in like ... 3 months or less.
 
Dabbler said:
Susquatch, I think that more than one strategy played all at once gives you the best chances. I'd keep posting on forums like this, checking Kijiji, auctions, going to used machinery dealers, going to friendly shops, etc.

This works if you want the best fit at the best price. It will probably find you a surprise machine that happens to fit your needs.

However I have the view that one should 'get one you can use below budget' while looking for the 'my perfect machine' and then sell the starter machine. This is not $ optimal. --but-- it gets you making chips during the perhaps 2 or 3 year wait for the perfect machine. You can think of it as machine rental during the search time, if you lose money at all. On all my sold machines, I've either broken even or lost a marginal amount. After all, I'm not in this for a living. I don't look to make a profit, but rather minimize my hassle.
Click to expand...

OK, I get the idea. It really isn't as some as choosing one from a multitude of choices.

FWIW, I already have my 2nd starter mill. It's not a great machine, but it works for most of what I need to do if I baby it and am not concerned about precision. It has an mt3 quill and I have lots of tooling for it so my preference would be to get another mt3 unit. But I've also been thinking about getting an r8 machine and using an r8 to mt3 adapter.

I also have a c5 chuck and a full set of collets for my lathe and I love that so it's an option too.

You are absolutely right about patience. It's too bad I don't have much....... (insert big sigh here)
 
Canadium said:
Sometimes you can find a mill by accident while looking at other stuff. Last week I found some small machinist stuff on Kijiji. When I went to pick it up I found it was a machinist shop where they had to move or potentially even go out of business. He had about 4 milling machines in his shop. When I expressed interest in the machines he offered to sell me one for a very reasonable price even though they were not advertised. If I'd had the money I would have bought it! There's lots of older manual milling machines on the market in Ontario. Kijiji and Facebook's Marketplace are the best places to look that I know of.
Click to expand...

Wish I was there with you.....
 
Tom Kitta said:
In ON there should not be an issue to get quality machine for a low price within few months of looking. Since you already have a mill there is no need for a quick buy.

You absolutely need to decide on size and set a plus or minus sizing. It would help to know what you have right now that is very old / too small.

BP clone shown is not a big machine. Generally in the 2000-2500 lbs range. You can easily find them on ON in 240v 3ph.

You need to decide on machine shape. And realistic budget.

Then hit Kajiji, FB, local auctions, some dealers.

You should have new to you mill in like ... 3 months or less.
Click to expand...

It's a plan.

I'll post pictures of my machine after I get back out to the shop. I badly sprained my ankle doing a plow repair and haven't done much myself besides age and collect dust.
 
I just got a RF-30 clone with MT3 taper spindle I am planning on moving to CNC. I wonder whatever you have that type of a mill already. MT3 taper in a mill is rare in Canada / US - most of stuff here is R8 or bigger NMTB 40. MT3 for a mill is more of European thing. Just avoid some exotic tapers that are US specific unless the machine comes with plenty of tooling - like B & S taper - tooling is difficult to find.
 
I started with a B048 Busy Bee mill, new. It was an older model with 8 X 32 table and power feed in X it looked like this:

pictureSM.webp


It was a great machine, but I wanted DRO, and I wanted a moveable ram like a real Bridgeport mill. So I found a great deal on a 9 X 49 BP clone with a DRO installed, in Vancouver. So I shipped it here and started using it. Only then did I find the machine I was looking for, a Modern PM945VS for even a better deal, so I bought that as well.

So the deals do come along if you are ready to pounce.
 
Susquatch said:
It's a plan.

I'll post pictures of my machine after I get back out to the shop. I badly sprained my ankle doing a plow repair and haven't done much myself besides age and collect dust.
Click to expand...

I finally managed to hobble out to my shop to take some photos of my zero cost "rental" as Dabbler calls them.

The bed is 8.5x36 with lots and lots of slop in the lead screws but not horrible on the gibbs. Unfortunately only 16" of travel.

The Quill only has 4" of travel.

Lots to hate about it, but it does work as long as you are patient and don't push it. The most hateful feature of all is the 10 & 0 on the cranks. I'm used to binary, octal, decimal, and even hex. But what the heck is base 11 ??? In my humble opinion, it's totally completely useless.

Love to know what it is and who made it if anybody knows.

In the meantime, it's my free rental till I find my forever mill.
20210519_192154.jpg
20210519_192036.jpg
20210519_191939.jpg
 
Tom Kitta said:
I just got a RF-30 clone with MT3 taper spindle I am planning on moving to CNC. I wonder whatever you have that type of a mill already. MT3 taper in a mill is rare in Canada / US - most of stuff here is R8 or bigger NMTB 40. MT3 for a mill is more of European thing. Just avoid some exotic tapers that are US specific unless the machine comes with plenty of tooling - like B & S taper - tooling is difficult to find.
Click to expand...

Yup, it's MT3. I like that because the tailstock on my lathe is MT3 too. It's amazing what a difference that makes for my tooling.

But it's a weird duck. I doubt the Europeans would ever make cranks with a number base of 11. See the photos I posted a few minutes ago. I expect it was imported by aliens around the same time they started infiltrating Ottawa......
 
Dabbler said:
I started with a B048 Busy Bee mill, new. It was an older model with 8 X 32 table and power feed in X it looked like this:

View attachment 14822

It was a great machine, but I wanted DRO, and I wanted a moveable ram like a real Bridgeport mill. So I found a great deal on a 9 X 49 BP clone with a DRO installed, in Vancouver. So I shipped it here and started using it. Only then did I find the machine I was looking for, a Modern PM945VS for even a better deal, so I bought that as well.

So the deals do come along if you are ready to pounce.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I'd be thrilled to have your first machine as my last!

I accept that I need more patience. It was silly to have thought about getting a busy bee 601/611.

As per the recommendations of you and others here, I have already created searches for mills on Facebook and Kijiji. I decided to search on "milling machine" and "metal mill" because "mill" got WAY too many hits.
 
The table is very similar to RF30. Same as main casting of the bottom part. The top obviously is not RF30. I wonder whatever the mill head is from the same machine or different machine. Or maybe you have some limited edition of a machine
 
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