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What material should Camlock cams and stop bolts be made from?

Tom Kitta said:
I have D1-3 and make all of my back plates.

The studs I make from soft steel. The cam locks are definitely not soft. I assume you mean the mechanism in the lathe head - the 3x cams that grab the stud.
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Side story from OPs thread - Do you have a thread or write up or any thing related to this procedure?
Thanks!
 
Proxule said:
Side story from OPs thread - Do you have a thread or write up or any thing related to this procedure?
Thanks!
Click to expand...

I may actually make a video of it - multi part. I just got another cheap chuck - a 4 jaw self centering, I will be making a back plate for. First I make the studs. Then the actual back plate.

I also have to grind that new 4 jaw as everyone knows cheap Chinese chucks are not exactly great first thing out of the box.

I can put the procedure in another thread. It is not a quick thing to do.
 
Dabbler said:
OHmygosh - no....

The chuck might be salvageable, but I'd never run it a max RPM - prolly 1/2 max...

yes!!

Please try this. for months if necessary.

Failing all that: TIG weld a square stud to the cam. USING AS LITTLE HEAT AS POSSIBLE,, AND QUENCHING BETWEEN SHORT WELDS, and then use impact approach, again.

.....failing that, the cam can be drilled out. Then there is making the new one, of course. Inheritance machining has a good tutorial about making D6 cams.
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Do not fret sir... I'm with you on every point. Except the screw extractor. A cam I can make easily, or even buy for $60 USD from MSC.

I want to mount the chuck back on the backplate and be able to use it again, but I'd already decided to replace it and plan to do most work on this lathe with a 5C drawbar. Small parts, high speed with minim run out.

I love the tig welding idea and now I'm torn. If I try the epoxy method first it may complicate the tig welding method later... also I have not practiced tig welding to the point I'd trust the weld to reef on if with high torque.

I saw Brandon's video on rotary broaching those cams. I mentioned it to my brother last night and said we need to make a rotary broach to be able to machine a new cam. His reply was that he'd buy me a new cam. Haha, that translates to "You already have too much crap to do and you have to install the DRO on my new lathe before we're making rotary broaches"!
 
Tom Kitta said:
I may actually make a video of it - multi part. I just got another cheap chuck - a 4 jaw self centering, I will be making a back plate for. First I make the studs. Then the actual back plate.

I also have to grind that new 4 jaw as everyone knows cheap Chinese chucks are not exactly great first thing out of the box.

I can put the procedure in another thread. It is not a quick thing to do.
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drop a link here so we can find your video if you make one please
 
Thank you people.

I knew I'd have a much clearer way forward and several viable options if I asked you for you thoughts.
 
Edit - I once made an epoxy driver for a receiver wrench. It has held up fabulously. It is just plain devcon plastic steel.

20230314_131426.jpg


You might want to do some research before deciding on glass filler. I might be tempted to use steel wool instead. This must be strong in shear, not tension. But even that, I'm not sure of. The idea is to improve the fit so the driver does not twist out. All the epoxy has to do is act as a filler to hold the driver in place. It doesn't actually need to do any driving. Think of it a bit like stuffing a piece of toothpick into a stripped screw hole.

Similarly, I'm not sure that an impact driver is the way to go. I'm thinking the whole thing might be better served by just wiggling back and forth over the course of several weeks to let the penetrating fluid get in there to do its job.

Your brother is right to be concerned about chemical damage. But I think that's mostly for reactive metals (brass, zinc, aluminium, etc) Maybe do some testing first? Or read the contents.....or search for others with similar problems?
 
Tom Kitta said:
I may actually make a video of it - multi part. I just got another cheap chuck - a 4 jaw self centering, I will be making a back plate for. First I make the studs. Then the actual back plate.

I also have to grind that new 4 jaw as everyone knows cheap Chinese chucks are not exactly great first thing out of the box.

I can put the procedure in another thread. It is not a quick thing to do.
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Wunderbar, Danke!
 
Susquatch said:
I like your brother...... He knows his priorities!
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Hey I agree. Especially since the colchester master he bought does not have a dial for the apron just like my chipmaster.

But he is also pushing to get my lathe out of the shop and into my garage. it is a fine balancing act and we must appease debbie doppler on top of everything else.
 
TorontoBuilder said:
Hey I agree. Especially since the colchester master he bought does not have a dial for the apron just like my chipmaster.

But he is also pushing to get my lathe out of the shop and into my garage. it is a fine balancing act and we must appease debbie doppler on top of everything else.
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LMAO! I was gunna mention Debbie and then thought better of it..... WAAAAY better coming from you! Too funny!
 
Susquatch said:
Yes Please?
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canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

Big Rose index

I had a chunk of steel that had over 2" hole in it, just about 2" thick. Round over 6". Didn't know what to do with it so I made this rose index. I first made the square than the hex. I do not think the small ones are that much of use as I already have square and hex blocks for anything up to...
canadianhobbymetalworkers.com canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

Here you go.
 
I had a similar problem on my Smart & Brown (classic little English lathe, about 50 years old), all 3 cams were broken/split. I suspect the damage was from using an under sized key. The cams on my 30 year old Enterprise lathe were the same (cool). Anyway I went to a used machine dealer - they were scrapping a nameless little Asian lathe, the cams were also the same (all D1-4 in my situation). Perhaps I was just lucky, but the cams may be common to that size mounting configuration.

The little retention screw/buttons/ spring - those are not the same, but were easy enough to figure out.

Granted D1-3 does seem the as common, but consider sourcing from a used machine?
 
TorontoBuilder said:
Do you know how to tig weld and have a good welder?

I'd buy you a nice BBQ lunch and a beer to come weld the piece on if I need to go this route
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OMG!! I have a Tig, but I honestly wouldn't say I know how to weld! If I did, I'd take you up on the offer.

I do have a good welder.....Rick at ToolWeld in Scarborough!! He specializes in microwelding, i.e. using a microscope, as well as laser welding.
 
TorontoBuilder said:
Dude has the best suggestion for the initial plan of attack!!! I love it.

I shall 100% be trying this method first. I'll scuff the inside of the hole with a burr to provide a bit of tooth to resist sheer forces that try to debond the epoxy. Then I'll clean out the hole as best I can first, then use alcohol to degrease it. I have some longer ground glass fibers I can mix into the epoxy so is will have a bit more strength too and wont slump. I'll use a much better tool the the supplied wrench as the key.

The only way I'd be getting a new spindle is if I won the lottery. They're just not available in Canada. The only real viable plan I have if I pooch this spindle is to turn several up, and take them to a acquaintance in the tri-cities area who has a cylindrical grinder and beg him to grind them to finish dimensions. I'd actually have to turn the rough dimensions, let my brother turn to the dimension to send to the shop with the grinder. I'd have to do that in a hurry since my contact plans to retire soon. So let's just say that is not up for consideration.
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What a mess, my sympathies!

I'd have thought the cam locks would be hardened. Hardened steel on hardened steel makes an excellent bearing surface (look at all the 100 year old watch lathes that still are perfect) but soft steel on soft steel will gall, which is also called cold welding where there is contact. If this is what has happened, penetrating oil isn't going to fix it, although lubrication will make it easier if you can break the contact/cold welds (if that is even what has happened....but I'd guess there's a good chance of that being the problem, seeing how soft that cam is)

This stuff was just discussed on another forum


Apparently it works, and is more effective than the old dodge on using valve lapping paste. Speculation was it has jagged particles of carbide in it so really bites into things.

Might worth a try. I'd be thinking a close fitting key out of something tough, say a HT chrome moly and this stuff.

The other thing on disassembly is that sometimes you can avoid breaking things or brinelling bearings by using lots of little taps vs a massive WHACK. Maybe an air gun? The high volume of impacts of an air wrench for example might be the thing.

Making a spindle is a big job. I made a few but never that large, its exacting work. Just getting a bore straight, that long and of that diameter presents challenges. You'll need more HT chrome moly lol. If it get so bad you've damaged the spindle, I'd say new bearings are in order as well. Ugh. Hopefully it doesn't get to that but if it does, is it worth it?


..........................................

Idea two.....get the spindle out of the lathe an on a mill. Start pecking away at the jammed up cam with a small carbide endmill until things can be pried apart
 
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