Use Acurite 5 scales with a Chinese DRO?

[Tomc938]

So I have been looking at going with a TouchDRO setup for my machines (mill and lathe) but was set back bit at the almost $200 price for a kit from TouchDRO.com. If I could get a kit, or even assemble one from bits and pieces for a lot less I would take the time - and chance - on going this route. Unfortunately, my electronics skills are not to a level where I can figure it out from scratch. It would be nice if there was a circuit board you could get and then source the components locally. That I could handle. (I can even solder surface mount components, FWIW)

I've found the schematics at touchDRO, but going from there to a circuit board is a bit beyond me also. And it looks like breadboarding it would be crazy complicated.

I have the Acurite AR-5 scales on my mill, and I'm wondering if anyone knows if these scales would work with the generic Chinese DROs? There are several in the $200-$300 range. Changing the plug configuration would not be an issue.

Here is the information about the scales.



I'm hoping someone can point me in A direction.

 

[whydontu]

I <think> the Acurite scale output a simple quadrature signal. My source is the Shumatech DRO-350 site. I built a DRO-350 15 years ago and it worked with the Heidenhain scales, which were swappable with the Acurite.

OpenDRO User's Guide | shumatech.com

www.shumatech.com

 

[Susquatch]

I'm hoping someone can point me in A direction.

I prolly have the skills and knowledge too. But at my age, I don't have the desire to even investigate it.

The touch kit is under $200 Canadian. If you can solder, you couldn't get the parts let alone write the software for less than that. And even if you could, the difference wouldn't justify it.

My only question if I were you would be whether or not I want the assembled ready to use unit or the kit. I my opinion, the upgradeability and warranty alone are prolly worth the extra cost of the assembled unit.

I really like the China Ditron that I installed on my mill though. It's a joy to use. I have the scales for my lathe already. I jusr have to decide whether I want a Ditron on my lathe or an assembled touch DRO.... That recently became an easier decision when Yurih figured out how to make his unit compatible with Samsung Tablets. I'm definitely leaning that way now.

Yurih responds to questions. Ask me how I know. Send him an email about your scales and he will know the answer without any doubt.

 

[Susquatch]

I'm hoping someone can point me in A direction.

A few other comments Tom.

You can download and install the Touch App free from the Google Play Store. This let's you play witn it a bit to see how it looks and feels without buying anything.

I am toying with the idea of using my smartphone instead of getting an old tablet. That would make it easy to make a little stand for the phone to sit up on my lathe headstock. I'm kinda used to using the phone instead of a desktop so I don't find it to be too small. Here are portrait and landscape screenshots.

 

[Ironman]

Well, he couldn't solve my problem. Something in my shop environment cause readings to continually shift. Itried many things, shielded cables etc, all for nothing.
DRO units are cheap now and I recommend that you don't go with a homebrew setup. A DRO will really expand your machine's usefulness, just spend the money on a chinese one. For $300 you can get one all assembled
I have 3 axis dro on my mill and I put a iGaging unit on the knee to give me 4 axis. Works well. iGaging scales are definitely the poor mans dro.

 

[Susquatch]

Well, he couldn't solve my problem.

As I recall, you have a VFD in your shop. I have two expensive Teco units in my shop. They are RF noise monsters. Input filtering and double shielded output cable seems to solved most of the problems.

Did you return your touch unit? If not, wanna sell it?

 

[Ironman]

As I recall, you have a VFD in your shop. I have two expensive Teco units in my shop. They are RF noise monsters. Input filtering and double shielded output cable seems to solved most of the problems.

Did you return your touch unit? If not, wanna sell it?

I put it away in a safe place, let me see if I can find it. I also have another Arduino board as well. And yes I have 3 VFD's and that may be the issue, as well as plasma and welders for making smoke and noise.

 

[Tecnico]

I prolly have the skills and knowledge too. But at my age, I don't have the desire to even investigate it.

The touch kit is under $200 Canadian. If you can solder, you couldn't get the parts let alone write the software for less than that. And even if you could, the difference wouldn't justify it.

My only question if I were you would be whether or not I want the assembled ready to use unit or the kit. I my opinion, the upgradeability and warranty alone are prolly worth the extra cost of the assembled unit.

I really like the China Ditron that I installed on my mill though. It's a joy to use. I have the scales for my lathe already. I jusr have to decide whether I want a Ditron on my lathe or an assembled touch DRO.... That recently became an easier decision when Yurih figured out how to make his unit compatible with Samsung Tablets. I'm definitely leaning that way now.

Yurih responds to questions. Ask me how I know. Send him an email about your scales and he will know the answer without any doubt.

Just a couple of comments.

Yuriy’s will respond to questions over in his sponsored forum page on Hobby Machinist.

The latest TDRO adapter gets you the more advanced “PLUS” version of the App, I’ll leave it to people to check it out on the TDRO site. That said the standard version covers anything that a Chinese DRO can do. I have it on both my lathe and mill and it is a game changer.

Yuriy’s is trying to get away from the U-solder version kits because they eat up an inordinate amount of his time providing support to people that have problems soldering. Gets in the way of developing the software. If you can roll your own board & upload firmware etc. you can still use the standard version of the software gratis.

WRT Plus vs STD, my adapters (his last U-solder kit) will dongle Plus when he eventually gets the activation protocols implemented but I haven’t played with it yet. Said differently, Plus will be nice but you can do anything a Chinese DRO can so if you can roll your own it’s a good option.

@Susquatch if you’re going to invest in a TDRO I’d move your Ditron display over to your lathe and put a tablet on your mill. There are a lot more things you can do with the app on the mill vs the lathe. If the price of a tablet is holding you back it can be run on a cheap Amazon fire tablet. Info on Yuriy’s site and the forum.

D

 

[Susquatch]

Yuriy’s will respond to questions over in his sponsored forum page on Hobby Machinist.

Yes, but I found he is more responsive via the contact us on his website. He can be weeks replying on HM.

The latest TDRO adapter gets you the more advanced “PLUS” version of the App, I’ll leave it to people to check it out on the TDRO site.

What does this mean? Does that require installation outside the Google Store? If so, I'm not impressed. I don't like those games.

That said the standard version covers anything that a Chinese DRO can do. I have it on both my lathe and mill and it is a game changer.

Have you done a detailed feature by feature comparison? If so, I'd like to see that!

Yuriy’s is trying to get away from the U-solder version kits because they eat up an inordinate amount of his time providing support to people that have problems soldering. Gets in the way of developing the software. If you can roll your own board & upload firmware etc. you can still use the standard version of the software gratis.

I can hardly blame him. I get the lower cost scenario, but if I were him, I'd have gone "no support at all with kits".

WRT Plus vs STD, my adapters (his last U-solder kit) will dongle Plus when he eventually gets the activation protocols implemented but I haven’t played with it yet. Said differently, Plus will be nice but you can do anything a Chinese DRO can so if you can roll your own it’s a good option.

First time I heard of a plus version. I'll have to have another look.

@Susquatch if you’re going to invest in a TDRO I’d move your Ditron display over to your lathe and put a tablet on your mill. There are a lot more things you can do with the app on the mill vs the lathe.

Huh, I would have thought the reverse. Lots of places to put a tablet or a phone on a lathe. But not on a mill. So I sorta like the Ditron display on a bracket pivoting off the lift eye.

If the price of a tablet is holding you back it can be run on a cheap Amazon fire tablet. Info on Yuriy’s site and the forum.

D

No. The price of a tablet wasn't holding me back. The price of YET ANOTHER FKG TABLET was holding me back. We have a few old Samsung tablets here and also a few old smart phones that don't talk to the phone services anymore. Until Yurih fixed the Bluetooth problem they were on his don't use list. I refused to buy another tablet when we have so many already. Now that the Bluetooth problem is fixed, I'll be using one of those. Using my phone is quite attractive too. Just need to add a few "ledges" to lean it on. I like that idea on a lathe. I was gunna make a wooden gear box hat to mount a Ditron, but a few display ledges here and there is VERY attractive.

 

[Tomc938]

I <think> the Acurite scale output a simple quadrature signal. My source is the Shumatech DRO-350 site. I built a DRO-350 15 years ago and it worked with the Heidenhain scales, which were swappable with the Acurite.

OpenDRO User's Guide | shumatech.com

www.shumatech.com

Yes, they use a quadrature signal.

Thanks for the comments. As I look further into this I see where some of my confusion is coming from. There's information kind of spread out over several pages, and what I would be really interested in is the couple of pages that he references but don't seem to be available anymore. (https://www.yuriystoys.com/2013/11/mixed-scale-dro-scale-adapter.html?m=1 - "A few weeks ago I posted the build instructions for an adapter board...")

And while Yuri might be good about answering questions, I wouldn't feel right asking him to help me get around paying him for the kit. Things have grown to a point that I'm guessing TDRO has become full-time job for him. Asking for free help doesn't feel right. Now if it was still a hobby for him...maybe that would be different.

 

[Susquatch]

what I would be really interested in is the couple of pages that he references but don't seem to be available anymore.

When I get some time, I will look through what I have. I had asked him about mixed inputs when I was contemplating a mix of glass, magnetic, and I-gauging. He told me how to do it but advised against it. I took his advice.

 

[Tomc938]

When I get some time, I will look through what I have. I had asked him about mixed inputs when I was contemplating a mix of glass, magnetic, and I-gauging. He told me how to do it but advised against it. I took his advice.

Thanks!

I would not plan to use mixed scales. Both my lathe and mill have glass.

The page I linked to above is a mixed scale version. Sounds like glass is a lot easier to manage.

 

[djberta]

I posted a how to for programming the esp32 on Yuri's area on the other forum. It is a bit tricky but doable. Mine are still sitting in a box waiting to be put together. I have magnetic scales. So a bit more work to get them to work. I have them working on a bread board. I have one of the original Arduino setups. But it is super buggy. I looked up some of my files. It goes back 10 years. A lots changed since then.

new career, change in city, Reno old house for sale, Reno new house to live in has really pushed a lot of my projects back.

As far as contacting Yuri about the diy stuff he has always answered my questions. He does offer the boards for sale as well. Just doesn't list them on the site. The touchdro extra features are really pretty neat. You have glass scales so you pretty much can go in any direction you want. It is a bit of choice when it comes to touchdro or a Chinese dro, there are good and bad in both. touchdro keeps evolving and adding features which why I like it.

 

[Susquatch]

Sounds like glass is a lot easier to manage.

I don't think one is any easier than the other. They both output TTL quadrature signals. Some DRO makers treat them totally interchangeably. They claim that their units will work with both w/o even a setup change.

Sounds like you are already mostly ahead of me. But I'll see what I can find.

touchdro keeps evolving and adding features which why I like it.

Yes, this is what I like most about the TouchDRO too. A simple software/firmware update and bingo - new features are here! Gotta buy a new box to get that with the Chinese units.

I'm not fond of needing a tablet, but as @Tecnico says, a "cheap" $80 Amazon FireTablet will work.

https://a.co/d/10lTiaa

Of course, I wanna use something I already have so even that is too much.

 

[Tecnico]

What does this mean? Does that require installation outside the Google Store? If so, I'm not impressed. I don't like those games.

According to Yuriy the current board acts like a dongle to enable (unhide) the Plus features built into the app.

Have you done a detailed feature by feature comparison? If so, I'd like to see that!

When I was shopping I compared the manuals for both but I didn’t do anything like write a document proving it if that’s what you’re asking.

I can hardly blame him. I get the lower cost scenario, but if I were him, I'd have gone "no support at all with kits".

He talks about his soul searching in some of his HM posts on the subject. He is quite transparent about his thoughts on it.

Huh, I would have thought the reverse. Lots of places to put a tablet or a phone on a lathe. But not on a mill. So I sorta like the Ditron display on a bracket pivoting off the lift eye.

On the mill I did a simple bracket pivoting off the lift eye socket with an Aliex mount for the tablet. I like the flexibility of positioning it, it seems a common solution. I did something that looks very similar on the (Myford) lathe but I made a slip in mount out of scrap wood. Pictures are in my Tecnico’s Shop Window thread. Will probably do similar for my SM1120, not really any available mount points on it unless you start drilling holes in the gearbox and I’m not so inclined.

That wasn’t really the point I was making though, I was referring to the much greater number of functions in a DRO that apply to use with a mill vs those applicable to a lathe. If I’m going to buy a tablet for just one machine I’d put it on a mill and take advantage of the GUI vs the simple 2 axes position display I usually use on the lathe. Of course I’m biased because I’m used to using the GUI DRO app on the tablet.

D

 

[Susquatch]

According to Yuriy the current board acts like a dongle to enable (unhide) the Plus features built into the app.

If I understand, the app queries the reader board looking for validation of a genuine board. Stupid. Easy to find that and replicate it. Too much trouble just to avoid copying. Pirates will always find a way. I hope they all choke on their own vomit.

Also not impossible to make your own everything. But also a waste of time when one is available to buy already done at such a reasonable price. It would be fun to do all that work for years on end, but I have better things to do. I'm more than happy to buy a touch and thereby pay Yurih for all his excellent hard work.

On the mill I did a simple bracket pivoting off the lift eye socket with an Aliex mount for the tablet. I like the flexibility of positioning it, it seems a common solution.

That's exactly what I did. It's almost a no-brainer. I even used the bracket that my Ditron Readout Box came with.

I did something that looks very similar on the (Myford) lathe but I made a slip in mount out of scrap wood. Pictures are in my Tecnico’s Shop Window thread. Will probably do similar for my SM1120, not really any available mount points on it unless you start drilling holes in the gearbox and I’m not so inclined.

Yup. My thoughts exactly. No way I'm drilling and tapping holes in my lathe.

And THAT was my whole point. A smart phone or tablet connected by Bluetooth can go ANYWHERE. You could even hang a shelf from the ceiling for Pete sake. A little moveable folding shelf stand on the headstock, on the backsplash, on the tool shelf, on the window sill, or even on the compound will be just fine.

The mill has VERY limited options. That lift eye is perfect for a big Ditron display and cables.

On the lathe, all the cables can run to Yurih's interface box hidden some place. Maybe on the back of the lathe base behind the tailstock or on the backsplash in the same vicinity. That's the beauty of Bluetooth. No fricking cables to worry about %q

That wasn’t really the point I was making though, I was referring to the much greater number of functions in a DRO that apply to use with a mill vs those applicable to a lathe. If I’m going to buy a tablet for just one machine I’d put it on a mill and take advantage of the GUI vs the simple 2 axes position display I usually use on the lathe. Of course I’m biased because I’m used to using the GUI DRO app on the tablet.

I'm hoping to use something I already have. When yurih fixed the Samsung Bluetooth issue, my door swung wide open to lots of stuff around here.

Regarding functionality on the mill, I have a hard time imagining needing more than I already have on my Ditron. It's a 4 axis plus RPM - a 5 line display, plus positional graphics for hole patterns, inclines, and arrays. I don't remotely use everything it can do and I don't predict that I ever will. Filling and maintaining a tool library is a job for a filer, not a chaos loving lunatic like me.

Isn't it wonderful that we are all different in one way or another and that we all have so many options available to satisfy our needs!

For me at least, I'm really thrilled right now. I already have magnetic scales for my lathe. I don't have to worry about getting a DRO Readout Box and installing it someplace godawful. I can just get one of Yurih's boxes and life goes on.

 

[Tecnico]

Regarding functionality on the mill, I have a hard time imagining needing more than I already have on my Ditron. It's a 4 axis plus RPM - a 5 line display, plus positional graphics for hole patterns, inclines, and arrays. I don't remotely use everything it can do and I don't predict that I ever will. Filling and maintaining a tool library is a job for a filer, not a chaos loving lunatic like me.

Isn't it wonderful that we are all different in one way or another and that we all have so many options available to satisfy our needs!

For me at least, I'm really thrilled right now. I already have magnetic scales for my lathe. I don't have to worry about getting a DRO Readout Box and installing it someplace godawful. I can just get one of Yurih's boxes and life goes on.

Looking at it that way, right now TDRO is more capable than I am and Plus will bring more. The one cool function I like the most is the ability to enter coordinates and view them on the GUI display, I don’t recall if the far east stuff does that but I expect so. In TDRO they change colour as you approach to let you know where you are.

The next step is being able to upload coordinates from .dxf or Excel or something like that and Yuriy’s is working on that. Game changer!

D

 

[Susquatch]

Looking at it that way, right now TDRO is more capable than I am and Plus will bring more. The one cool function I like the most is the ability to enter coordinates and view them on the GUI display, I don’t recall if the far east stuff does that but I expect so. In TDRO they change colour as you approach to let you know where you are.

Yup. Ditron does that too. Shows destination and current position. Changes colour as you get close and then big colour change when you get there.

The next step is being able to upload coordinates from .dxf or Excel or something like that and Yuriy’s is working on that. Game changer!

Nope, Ditron won't do that.

I can't call that a game changer for me though. I can't imagine ever even wanting to do that. Too close to CNC for me. I'd never trust it so what's the point? I like writing coordinates on a drawing which I can then enter manually. I left automation behind me when I retired. Now I like manual everything. I do like that the DRO will do the math for me though.

 

[Tecnico]

Nope, Ditron won't do that.

I can't call that a game changer for me though. I can't imagine ever even wanting to do that. Too close to CNC for me. I'd never trust it so what's the point? I like writing coordinates on a drawing which I can then enter manually. I left automation behind me when I retired. Now I like manual everything. I do like that the DRO will do the math for me though.

Never say never until you try it! Didn’t you say the DRO changed your life?

I like doing the part/drawing in 3D CAD and so far, enter in TDRO by hand but I would trust CAD export to not make typos like I do! It’s even better when you’re doing a lot of points.

I also like being able to see the whole part (coordinates) to eyeball for anomalies.

D

 

[Susquatch]

Never say never until you try it! Didn’t you say the DRO changed your life?

Wise words.

Ok, I won't say never......

But I do remain skeptical..... LOL!