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Standard modern 2000 series 13 inch quick change tool post help

M

mik236

Member
Hi I'm was looking to upgrade my tool post to a quick change style for my Standard Modern 13 inch 2000 Series lathe. I am thinking to get one of the cheaper knock ones. Which would be either a wedge style Aloris BXA or a 40 position multifix style. Which the multifix style I am more so leaning towards but as for the size of one to order I am a bit confused.
Does any one have a 40 position quick change on there Standard modern lathe & have pictures & know which size to order?
I was thinking of ordering from alibaba.com they seem to have good prices.
 

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My 14" Meuser has a Multifix, I believe it is Swiss made, I could check to see the size if you'd like.

I haven't had a chance to use the lathe and get a feel for the Multifix yet but my first impression is "what is all the fuss about ?" My SB has an Aloris clone and it yields an infinite number of positions as opposed to just 40. None of the 40 seem right to me (not yet). The tool holders are expensive and far mor complex to make. The Colchester has a turret style (?) which also solves the Multifix apparent short comings.
Am I wrong, what am I missing ?
 
I'm with Jorogi, to me 90% of the benefit is the multiple holders with tools already mounted and set to height, and adjusting the angle for each tool seems like a minor issue. With the regular wedge type B size holders running about $38-$40 each for decent quality ones (Accusize on Amazon https://www.amazon.ca/Accusize-Type201XL-Turning-Facing-0250-0201XL/dp/B01IDLURC8), not sure how much a multifix holder I'm but guessing its more).
I think you get better bang for your buck with the BXA style.
 
I agree with the benefits of the bxa, especially the ease with which tool holders can be made. I don't have any experience with the multfix, but the tool holders don't look as straight forward to make.
 
jorogi said:
The Colchester has a turret style (?) which also solves the Multifix apparent short comings.
Am I wrong, what am I missing ?
Click to expand...

Mike R said:
I'm with Jorogi, to me 90% of the benefit is the multiple holders with tools already mounted and set to height, and adjusting the angle for each tool seems like a minor issue.
Click to expand...

140mower said:
I agree with the benefits of the bxa, especially the ease with which tool holders can be made. I don't have any experience with the multfix, but the tool holders don't look as straight forward to make.
Click to expand...

I'm with you guys too. I have a big rack with the tools I use most already mounted. I've made holders too, and it isn't a difficult task. But they are not expensive and go on sale regularly so all of my shop made holders are custom made for a specific purpose.

I think the primary advantage of the Multifix is rigidity. I couldn't imagine making my own Multifix holders without CNC. Maybe even a CNC Shaper! WoooHooo!

Just kidding - I have no interest in CNC anything. But I REALLY enjoyed seeing @gerritv's amazing setup this past Wednesday.

Maybe a few Multifix guys can tell us why they like it so much. @thestelster?
 
I’ve got two multi fix and two wedge. I have no preference. Wedge, easier getting tool holders priced waaaaaay cheaper, plenty good enough for me. Multi fix more expensive but at my level I do not realize any advantage.I have one Swiss and one clone . Tool holders interchange . On my Hass tl1 I have a accuzize wedge, does just fine.
 
Yea as for price on Amazon.ca the BXA wedge kits with 7 holder is $328.15 & additional holders is around $35 per.

As for the multi fix type A from Alibaba.com $335.37 which comes with 4holder and additional ones are about $37 per.

Which the down side is Alibaba.com will take a couple weeks or more to get as for Amazon most things are a day or 2.

And as for the size I believe type A is the right size for my 13" lathe. At first I had thought type E but now as of reading the page shared by thestelster I believe type A would be a better fit.
 
Don't forget the Alibaba price excludes shipping cost usually, you screen shot shows $90 for shipping. I always compare based on landed cost at my door.
Amazon Prime is ~$10 and can subscribe for just 1 month, pays for itself on something heavy.
Also note - a few have had less than impressive results on no-name tools and such - such as the BXA tool holders not fitting nice. I had some cheap ones and the main body was ok but the screws were pure garbage - the hex socket end blew apart while tightening the first time. A few of us have had good results with the Accusize branded ones - very well finished and no issues. Worth the extra couple of buck to get ones that are known to be good versus the crap shoot that are the random import brands.
 
I have a SM 11LD Utilathe. I put an “A” (not Aa) size 40 position qctp. It is great, I quite like it. I have 3 lathes and three different qctp set ups. The first one I got was the Aloris style CXA (Phase II) to replace a turret - I now have a good selection of holders (some shop made - it was a good exercise, but my view is they are cheap enough it isn’t worth making them).

My 11” Smart and Brown lathe I set up with an “E” size 40 position. After using the Aloris style and the 40p, I prefer the 40P - but not enough to replace the Aloris style. When the SM lathe came along, and it was time to start getting it dressed, I tried the “E” size (obviously I already had it on the 11” S&B) - but it was too big for the 11” SM lathe. While the two lathes have the same center height, the S&B is a lot more machine.

You could probably manage the “E” size on your 13” lathe (the size description is goofy, Aa, A, E, B, C, D). You can get dimensions on line (I used the information from Create Tool). Obviously I can’t give you a guarantee (you need to check the distance from the top of your compound to machine center line and confirm your intended tool size will fit). The lathe center height from the bed does not tell you what size qctp to get.

As you can see from the responses, tool post styles are like any other favourite branding. Plenty of definite opinions. I like the 40P because I rarely need to swing the tool post. On the Phase II, I often adjust the tool post orientation (which takes all of about 2 seconds). In terms of functionality, they are both good.

Maybe a 4 position turret? That is what I replaced with the Phase II CXA. I had all my different shims set up, it was fine. I still have the turret (I used it for about 30 years), but it has never gone back on. I found more than 2 tools quite impractical (the not used tools can interfere). There is nothing really wrong with that turret post that you have. Of course it is fun to bling out the lathe buy more tools etc - but it won’t perform better.

I bought the qctp systems for the 11” lathes because they came to me with no tool post, no holders - just a bare compound. I have been very satisfied with how those machines are setup.
 
Chipper5783 said:
You could probably manage the “E” size on your 13” lathe (the size description is goofy, Aa, A, E, B, C, D). You can get dimensions on line (I used the information from Create Tool).
Click to expand...

Thanks for adding that. I've been aware that there was an E size out there, but it seems like it isn't as standard as the more common 00, AA, 0, A, B, C, & D sizes, and it's size can vary much more between manufacturers than the others do.

You are the first fellow I have known who actually had one.

I know that I don't get a say, but I sorta wish they had chosen AB or BB instead of E. At least that way, buyers might guess that it was between an A and a B, instead of legitimately but incorrectly guessing it was even bigger than D.

The other thing that users need to know is that the tool holders that are used with these tool posts also come in different sizes. For example, my BXA tool post generally takes 5/8" holders and 5/8" tools. But 3/4" tool holders (generally called T - for Tall) are also available that can be used with 3/4" tools.

Lastly, within limits, one can also mill a bit off of the top or bottom or both from a tool or a tool holder to increase the size available, or use shims to make using smaller tools possible.

I think your advice to measure, compare, and research the alternatives is solid - at least until a user gets comfy with what they need for their lathe. I've seen way too many members throw away good money buying the wrong size. And sometimes even buying tool holders and tools that are the wrong size too.
 
Yes, Susq, you make a good point. I already had quite a few tools 3/4” shank and some 1” shank (the turret could take 1” tools) - so that was the reason I made holders for the CXA system. At the time I didn’t know there were 1” holders available for CXA. I also have quite a few 3/4” tools so it was important to me to be able to use them on the smaller lathes. On the E size, the standard holder accepts 3/4” tools. On the A size one has to get the “large” holder, in order to accept 3/4” tools.

Indeed, holders and tools can be modified. My E setup on the 11” S&B needed has a ridge on the top of the compound so I took little clearance cut off the bottom. The holders were still too high so I took about 0.05 off the holders so that the holders sit directly on the top of the compound. The main tools live in those specific holders (they don’t get changed out), thus no need to adjust them. Obviously it was a little fussy to setup the height initially (each 3/4” tool is not quite the same) - but it makes for a pretty solid and clean arrangement.
 
Chipper5783 said:
On the E size, the standard holder accepts 3/4” tools. On the A size one has to get the “large” holder, in order to accept 3/4” tools.
Click to expand...

Something is amiss. But then again we are talking about the whacky subject of tool posts and tool holders. So I shouldn't be surprised!

I've never seen an A that will take a 3/4 inch tool. The most I've ever seen is 5/8 in a tall AXA holder.

Also, if the E is really between A & B it won't take 3/4" tools. In fact, even the unmodified BXA only takes 3/4 in a "Tall" tool holder. The standard size is 5/8". So perhaps the E is bigger than a BXA?
 
I’m not familiar with sizing on the AXA, so no comment from me.

In the A size, 3/4” is no problem. In the A size, 40P style PeWe Tools offers more selection of sizes (I did not get mine from PeWe, I got them through Regina Bob - he had a supplier in China). The item number (visible in the attached photo) gives the dimensions of the opening in mm. Granted the “standard” holder is for 5/8” tools.

For the E size 40P, the standard seems to be 3/4” - again PeWe has other options.
 

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Chipper5783 said:
I’m not familiar with sizing on the AXA, so no comment from me.

In the A size, 3/4” is no problem. In the A size, 40P style PeWe Tools offers more selection of sizes (I did not get mine from PeWe, I got them through Regina Bob - he had a supplier in China). The item number (visible in the attached photo) gives the dimensions of the opening in mm. Granted the “standard” holder is for 5/8” tools.

For the E size 40P, the standard seems to be 3/4” - again PeWe has other options.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see! You were not talking about Aloris, you were talking about Multifix.

I wish they used totally different size designations. Way too easy for everyone to get confused.

A Aloris is not the same as A Multifix!
 
So I measured the center to the bottom of where tool post is and it 1-1/2" or 38.1mm. I'll have to take a look at the measurements and see which is good size is good to order for the 40p. I think it's going to be a A or E
 
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