Tool spotting blue for scraping?

[mjautek]

Hi all,

any suggestions for spotting blue for scraping and where to get it? a few of the usual options (stuart's micrometer blue, dykem...) I've looked at it seems like you have to pay a bit of a premium to get here.

the stuff I have (PRM pro spotting blue) I find hard to see, and if I go heavier on the ink then the ink layer is too thick. maybe this is a skill issue I dunno.

like this is sort of what I mean - in the middle everything sort of looks blue which is suspicious? theres only a few distinct points like at the bottom (sorry for forcing you to see my super ugly scraping)

so far I'm just scraping in this old princess auto vise and some other garbage I have laying around... I need to make a bench grinder into a carbide grinder and then watch like 15 hours of youtube videos and then practice for another 80 years and hopefully by then I will be ready to start fixing my beat up lathe...

cheers

 

[PeterT]

Cool. @Mcgyver is one of the resident scraping pro's, maybe he will chime in. I've noticed some discussion that certain lines are no longer available or PITA to ship or becoming more expensive than Frankincense. I've heard some people using artists oil based paint but not too sure if that means neat or thinning a bit. The good thing is if it works, readily available & many more color choices to work with LOL.

Show us some of your scraping tools when you have some time. Scraping is on my project list.

 

[Lucky7]

I use Canode blue. Also occasionally use their yellow to increase contrast. In my opinion, much more user friendly than Stuarts or Dykem. Cheaper too. Canode easily cleans up with soap and water on the hands and Windex on parts. Now made by Artco in US. Their’s a Biax rebuilder in Detroit I’ve been buying from- can look up his contact info if needed.

Have a decade of experience scraping mills, lathe bits (haven’t done a bed) and grinders, as well as the usual melange of straightedges, surface plates and angle plates. Can’t speak for whether Canode is good for spindle bearing scraping as I have no experience with that. I know Mcgyver does though, maybe he’ll chime in.

Mjautek, where are you? If you’re in Wpg or come thru here, pm me. I can show you some Canode in use.

 

[skippyelwell]

KBC has it in stock, https://www.kbctools.ca/products/search/?Keyword=Dykem blue

 

[PeterT]

@skippyelwell I think those KBC Dykem products are all 'layout' blue. Different purpose than products used for scraping.

@Lucky7 I have seen the Artco stuff through USA distributers. Have you seen it in Canada somewhere?

Canode Blue Die Spotting Ink - 8oz

Canode blue die spotting ink for locating high spots on molds and dies, and matching bearing and gear surfaces. Non-drying, non-hardening. Transfers clearly from one surface to another. Canode blue ink is water based and can be wiped off with a damp rag. 8 ounce bottle.

www.artcotools.com

 

[Aliva]

Amazon.ca

 

[PeterT]

Not sure if you are replying to my post or providing links. Yes Amazon.ca sells Permatex Prussian blue (transfer blue). That's equivalent to the original transfer blue. The other items look to be oil paints & art supplies. Amazon does not sell Artco Canode, referenced in post #3. Some scrapers prefer the original transfer blue, others don't like its cleanup procedures, staining the granite surface plate if that's an issue. I'm actually not sure if an oil paint would be much different in that regard but I've bee meaning to try.

 

[Lucky7]

Unfortunately the last time I bought Canode, roughly three years ago, it was not available in Canada. Easy to buy from US seller.

On edit: took some looking, but found the contact info for the Detroit area business that supports Biax repairs and scraping parts and Canode dye. Ed Dyjak 248-684-4260 or email at [email protected] Artco wasn’t making Canode when I last purchased some, maybe buying direct from them would be cheaper?

 

[Jayham]

I watched a video of Watch Wes Work. He scrapped a large angle plate. He used cement tinting pigments (black and orange)

I couldn't find any of the regular suggested contrasts. So local to Edmonton I found some pigments (black and orange) at a cement supply shop.

I gave them a go, worked pretty well. I took pictures but since deleted them. I just scrapped the gib on my mill.

 

[PeterT]

@Lucky7 have you tried any oil paint / art paint yourself? I saw that Wes Work video too. It obviously works & he has landed on a recipe mix. I can't but help thinking artist suppliers have mastered grinding all kinds of minerals & pigments into the finest dust & mixing with a myriad of binders for a long time. But I'm probably missing something - its too simple! LOL

 

[Mcgyver]

Cool. @Mcgyver is one of the resident scraping pro's,

lol, I'm reminded of the old line .... you know what the difference is between an expert and a layman? 5%

I use the Dykem blue. Have tried the Permatex, not the same. Hard to describe and might be mostly personal preference, what I'm used to. Not sure if any formulas have changed, I bought a load of stuff ten or fifteen years ago that had a dozen or more tubes of it. Haven't worked them all yet.

I've often described the blue to the uninitiated as kind of like oil paint that doesn't dry ..... stuff that drys does not seem that attractive.

 

[Lucky7]

Yup, have tried oil based. Worked ok, but not a fan of using brain dissolving solvents for dye removal etc if I can avoid. Canode is water clean up. Need whatever few remaining brain cells I have ;-)

 

[PeterT]

lol, I'm reminded of the old line .... you know what the difference is between an expert and a layman? 5%

I heard PowerPoint slides but the percent sounds about right LOL

So I assume you are in the camp of - if it permeates & dyes my granite over time, so be it, it doesn't affect accuracy?
What have you found to be an effective removal solvent on the parts themselves? And slow acting on the brain cells?

So Dykem-Hi Spot is still around. Somebody on the wicked wide interweb said Permatex took over that product but obviously they are a formulator competitor (still).

Hi Spot Blue Paste - DYKEM

www.itwprobrands.com

 

[wmetfab]

The permatex in a small tube mentioned above.
Lasts for 35 yrs

 

[ChazzC]

I was hoping that either TMBR or Gunsmith Kinks (for barrel inletting) would have a DIY solution, but the closest I found was mixing cold cream with liquid lamp black.

Paste pigments may work, and should be available at an artists' supply shop:

 

[ChazzC]

Oh, also found this on Amazon:

It's either a great idea, or a really bad one!

 

[Stuart Samuel]

I can’t find the specific reference, but I remember Robin Renzetti and Tom Lipton talking about using Charbonnel Aqua Wash Etching Ink for spotting, either alone or mixed with traditional spotting blue.

While trying to dig up the reference (lord, is trying to find years old instagram posts awful) I ran into this site: Seems to be a searchable Robin Renzetti/Instagram archive! Muttered prayers answered, potentially.

 

[mjautek]

Show us some of your scraping tools when you have some time. Scraping is on my project list.

boring answer unfortunately - I somehow scored a biax 7ELM on kijiji for 100$ so I've just been using that and the blades that came with it on some hokey handle I made.

as a bit of a tangent - I intend to make a pull scraper at some point. I've got some nubbins from an old SIP measuring machine that were most likely pull scraped and they're just gorgeous:

I was reading articles about SIP history recently and ran across this webpage which has a picture of a pull scraper that was used at SIP and also a picture of a guy scraping in a jig borer, with the caption noting that scraping in a machine "could require more than 3 months of work depending on the type of machine", which was how they got those huge jig borers accurate to 2 tenths across the whole travel in the 50s I guess...

(also as a further aside - the scrape marks on the SIP bits I have arent 90° to each other but more like 30° or so as seen above... anyone know why they would do this?)

Mjautek, where are you? If you’re in Wpg or come thru here, pm me. I can show you some Canode in use.

oh hey, I think I've seen your name around on PM on the deckel board? I've got an old FP1. it's also pretty worn but nowhere as beat as my lathe is haha. I'm in toronto ish so pretty far from winnipeg I very much appreciate the offer!


I'm leaning towards dykem I guess since I can get it off the jungle website, a bit of googling and it seems like permatex is not as good, and canode is not being made anymore (?)

Thanks for the input all, I appreciate it.

 

[PeterT]

I somehow scored a biax 7ELM on kijiji for 100$ so I've just been using that and the blades that came with it

Sounds like a scam, you should probably send it to me for evaluation. I'll give you double what you paid! <g>

That web page link is interesting!

Speaking of links here is a YouTube channel I recently stumbled on - Gena Bazarko. The working conditions look challenging & kudus to him for language translation effort. But the metrology numbers kind of do the talking. I'm hoping he posts more on his tools & other related subjects.

Gena Bazarko

I live in Ukraine. Now I am preparing for a major overhaul of metalworking machines for my workshop. I need to repair a lathe, a milling machine, a grinding machine. First of all, I need a special tool, a straightedge, a surfase plate, a 90-degree test angle, a 55-degree straightedge. I will...

www.youtube.com

 

[justin1]

.

I too am learning to scrape. I currently been using the permatex blue and find it hard to spread and easy to over due and also easy to under do aswell. It doesn't seem to stain hands too bad but I was gonna try using the concrete colouring that I've seen few people use on YouTube before.

This is some blueing that I did yesterday and it does work but I would like to try the 2 colour method aswell.

I just finished making some hand scrappers so I can do more dicking around but have to make sharper next so I can actually do anything.

I got a bag of permatex if you wanted one I could ship you one not sure if it would be cheaper then Amazon tho.

Also I'm offended that your living out my dreams of finding a cheap power scrapper. But dam nice score.