Tom O
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Spitfire needs work
- Thread starter Tom O
- Start date
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Elektrishun
Ultra Member
"It's not a toy. Lowballers and idiots will be blocked."
I guess I'm out.
Nonetheless, that would be quite the project.
I guess I'm out.
Nonetheless, that would be quite the project.
From some quick searching seems to be some odd smissmorshon scale, wings are 75% scale, fuse is 90% scale, has 2 seats with dual controls, second seat must not have much of a view
Kitplanes magazine lists that as 214,000$ kit with engine, estimated at 250 completed, in 2012 dollars
So, for the right guy that's probably not to bad
Kitplanes magazine lists that as 214,000$ kit with engine, estimated at 250 completed, in 2012 dollars
So, for the right guy that's probably not to bad
And there we have aviation defined.
I always got a chuckle out of guys wingeing how their boat was a hole in the water to pour money into. Obviously they don't own an airplane.
welcome to airplanes
Not news to me, spent almost 30 years burning other people's money, fixing and fueling various military aircraft. Started out on Grumman CS2f Trackers and Lockheed T-33 Silver Stars, went on from that gig, to Moose Jaw, on the Tutor aircraft, then Bell 412's, then F-18's.
From my perspective, if the owner wants half a decent chance to sell, he would be best to repair or have repaired, and signed off, the Damages, and factor in the costs with hopes of recovering at least most of the expenses.
Holding out the 'no lowballers' phrase when the shopper is liable to be uncovering even more expensive damages as soon as the repairs starts, leads me to think he is hoping to unload a problem on someone else. I figure anyone with a modicum of experience in the field of aviation maintenance is going to want to pay FAR less than what this seller will likely think is a low-ball offer, as insurance against it turning in to an even greater money suck.
The real question is, why isnt insurance fixing it, or selling it, could he not get coverage or did he not have coverage?
Of course it would be smarter for him to repair it and either continue flying it, or sell it. But im guessing he either doesn't have the skills or like your leading to, he found much more damage than was first apparent. Given its a homebuilt it could be repaired with sweat equity and the cost of aluminum. But in any case i bet he gets 80 for it, heck there is a guy at spring bank who put a turbine on an an2, then put that same an2 on custom carbon fiber floats...to make it into a flying camper, just because he wanted to, lots of guys in this part of the country with that kind of cash.
Of course it would be smarter for him to repair it and either continue flying it, or sell it. But im guessing he either doesn't have the skills or like your leading to, he found much more damage than was first apparent. Given its a homebuilt it could be repaired with sweat equity and the cost of aluminum. But in any case i bet he gets 80 for it, heck there is a guy at spring bank who put a turbine on an an2, then put that same an2 on custom carbon fiber floats...to make it into a flying camper, just because he wanted to, lots of guys in this part of the country with that kind of cash.
Springbank, outside Calgary? I was trapped there for almost two weeks when they held the G-8 summit, in Kananaskis Country(2002?), long ago! LOL. We were bored enough to start snaring gophers from their holes, and dying them different colors with Kool-Aid crystals before releasing them... Red ones, purple ones, green ones... LOL!
The CF provided the Taxi Service from Calgary to the Summit. Fun times <spit!>. We were about a week out from the road move down to the camp that had been built for us at Springbank, and we all got called in to a briefing. They swore petty or better revenge upon us if we leaked any of the info that they were passing along, (secret, you know!), and proceeded to tell us that we were being a Taxi Service. One of our Comms Techs stood up when the Commanding Officer asked if anyone had any questions. "Sir, are we flying with live armed CF-18's on overwatch?" "Yes!"
"Will they attack aircraft that do not have IFF's (Identification, Friend or Foe)? "Yes!"
"Where are we getting IFF's to put in the rest of our Helicopters?" "We HAVE IFF's in our Helicopters!"
No sir, I am the tech that has been moving our four serviceable IFF's systems from aircraft to aircraft (we had, IIRC. 12 or 14 Bell 412's <spit> (pieces of crap!), ensuring that you had a working IFF on your flight!"
Was actually hilarious to see the CO glaring at the Squadron Engineering Officer and a bunch of other senior ranks that were parked in the front row, trying to be absorbed by their seats! LOL! Would have paid to be a fly on the wall, when THAT talk took place!
'Miraculously', someone found the money to buy the replacement IFF boxes that were previously considered 'too expensive'.
I consider that I worked WITH, a great bunch of Great People. I worked FOR, F**king Morons, who I would not willingly follow out a fire escape, if I had seen the flames with my own eyes! <spit>
One outfit in one of the Hangars there, was building a Turboprop 'homebuilt' with a Russian copy of a PT-6 on it, I was chatting with them, told of some of our capabilities, and ended up making some custom leather stick boots for the build, while killing time waiting for real work.
I'd bet that after paying what he did for the kit, likely paying to have it built (because really, what ratio of the guys spending that kind of money, really wants to put hundreds/thousands of hours in to hand work?), he probably skipped on the cost of insurance. Not that I can say I don't feel that way, I killed my $2K per year replacement contents insurance on my house, when I noted that the stuff they would replace, I didn't give a pinch of poo for, and could replace at will out of my own budget, while the stuff I valued, was worth nothing to the Insurer (photo albums, personal history mementos, family inherited antiques, art stuff, books, etc. Even my shop tools, if I was being incredibly generous, would not drag the total value of what was in my house, anywhere near what I was paying for. So I stopped it, cold.
That g8 summit is coming up again, it's quite the costly event, 100 police officers doing mock convoys during the middle of rush hour, cf posted in little makeshift fobs all over k country, f18's, helicopters (I assume for the taxi service like you said), turning all of Calgary and a 30nm ring around kanaskas town into a cyr for how ever long, shutting down major highways in k country
It's not a popular event here, I think we all feel your frustration with that one.
That guy with the antonov is there quite often, I'm not sure how often he is actually physically doing the work however, but the thing does fly on floats now. Well the one does at least, the other one is sitting at that outfit who did the turbine swap without the wings. I couldn't imagine not having some kind of coverage on there with the cost of the turbine alone
It's not a popular event here, I think we all feel your frustration with that one.
That guy with the antonov is there quite often, I'm not sure how often he is actually physically doing the work however, but the thing does fly on floats now. Well the one does at least, the other one is sitting at that outfit who did the turbine swap without the wings. I couldn't imagine not having some kind of coverage on there with the cost of the turbine alone
I can sorta understand, given the costs twenty years ago, that were making my private pilot friends whinge and wince. A fella that can afford to play in that rarefied air, may well think that the premiums will amount to worse than the damage.
The 'homebuilt' that was being put together while I was there was a variation of the two seat P51 Mustang theme, except with a PT6 clone. Dunno if we are thinking of the same plane or not. The Techs that were working on it said that the guy's wife didn't like flying, so they custom built a cooler to hold a couple bottles of wine for her amusement during transits. LOL!
no not the same plane then, i thought you were talking about the Antonov an2 that is there, on floats, with a turbine, same guy owns a second one, without wings, that they used to prove the turbine conversion, its sitting at one of the shops, thats money, i recall him telling me the turbine with gearbox was like 800k, and this is not a plane that makes money
i dont know, i suppose if you have something with retracts, a constant speed prop and a high stall speed the premiums are crazy, but for the regular Cherokee or Cessna 152 thats in the 50k range insurance is not bad, i have a friend who is 23 or 24 who pays 2300 a year on her Cherokee ( i believe her grandfather bought it for her), full coverage, im sure her car costs her more being under 25. I pay under 1000 for full coverage on my homebuilt. I dont know how those rates go when you get up into the hundred of thousands in hull value, maybe it skyrockets, i cant afford a 200,000$ plane so i will probably never find out
One of the guys in our RC Airplane club in the Comox Valley, owned a Grob 'glass slipper' style glider. Early 1980's. That rig was hitting over $300k then... My new built house, and the five acres it was on, was less than half that, at the time!
But, if it ain't taking food outta anyone's mouth, or interfering with paying the bills, it's all good!
High performance Gliding interests me, other than the price of admission. Never really cared for fixed wing flight, and didn't care enough for Rotary wing, to sink $60K-$100K in to training debt just in case I could get a job flying, and Private Rotary Wing is just cooking your hot dogs over a fire fuelled by hundred dollar bills.
Best advice I ever heard from a successful career Commercial Pilot, was, "Never talk sh!t to the Clerk at 7-11, he might be your shift supervisor one day!
An airplane was my biggest financial mistake ever. It's not what you think though because I didn't buy it. When I lived out west years ago I was asked if I was interested in buying some airplane wrecks. They had the remains of 4 spitfires. Real ones not replicas with data plates. For those that don't know an airplane is a stainless steel data plate. The rest is replaceable parts. Asking price for the planes was $45k.
At the time $45k might as well have been a million because I didn't have it. I was told a while back that a data plate for a spitfire can sell for a million dollars. The rest of the plane can be made or assembled from available parts. Even if the numbers were 1/4 of that I would now be retired instead of fixing the cargo door on a Q400 like I'll be doing today.
At the time $45k might as well have been a million because I didn't have it. I was told a while back that a data plate for a spitfire can sell for a million dollars. The rest of the plane can be made or assembled from available parts. Even if the numbers were 1/4 of that I would now be retired instead of fixing the cargo door on a Q400 like I'll be doing today.
Yeah, have read several reports over the years of guys spending large fortunes, and LOTS of time, seeking out war years and post war years training crash sites, to recover that plate. Almost exactly like firearms, the bit with the actual serial number on it "IS" under the Law, the actual thing, and the rest is subject to being repaired, replaced, or simply built new from scratch, and it still counts.
Supposedly even better, in airplane world, is to have the Data Plate AND the original Logbook...
Then, ponder the number of Merlin and Allison engines that were uncrated, and subsequently used up, making fast boats for expensive fun, leading to some pretty strange prices for complete ones, and even for wrecks.
On a related note, I remember when I first read about BitCoin, and it was like, 4 cents per... <sigh> LOL!
that's probably the holy grail these days, given the last spitfire was built in 1947, putting the youngest original spitfire at 78! thats some old paper
i often do wonder how well those old log books were kept (journey and technical), like did the mechanics have the time to log every single repair? or did they just slap them back together as quickly as possible and send them back out ? during the battle of Brittan i cant imagine logbook paperwork was top priority
I dunno that the Logbook, was actually used for much other than who the pilot was, and how many hours it flew. At that time. Not sure how they traced the Maintenance Records.
I spent a significant amount of my working life in AMCRO. Aircraft Maintenance Control and Records Office. We tracked the flight hours, on hundreds of individual aircraft parts, so they could be changed out before they were expired, as well as tracking total hours, and number of landings, on each Air Frame. It got a little miserable, trying to sort the paperwork, when a part was robbed off one aircraft, to troubleshoot another... Some of the Records were pretty convoluted. Most were merely, OK. But, we had to watch through dozens or more maintenance forms each day, to pick up what was changed on each aircraft, when, and why. Loads of fun! For a numerically gifted dude on the Autism Scale...
Much of this was pretty low on the scale, as far as WW2 Fighters were concerned, as their lives were considerably shorter. Mostly.