Sourcing Metal | General Discussion

[PeterT]

Hmmm... I just happen to know this 1/2" x 6" was about 17 $/ft at Metal Supermarkets Calgary when I called. Millenium is 30$/ft FOB wherever they are out of
https://millenniumalloys.ca/product/msf-mild-steel-flat-bar-0-5in-x-6in/

 

[Dabbler]

At least Kelowna isn't too far or over the border. Cut stock prices seem to be all over the map these days, as people scramble for business.

 

[Janger]

Hmmm... I just happen to know this 1/2" x 6" was about 17 $/ft at Metal Supermarkets Calgary when I called. Millenium is 30$/ft FOB wherever they are out of
https://millenniumalloys.ca/product/msf-mild-steel-flat-bar-0-5in-x-6in/

It is $7.25 a foot at federal metals. I assume steel inc would be quite similar. These millennium guys and metal stupid market are out of sight as usual. They can cut you a small quantity which is their niche.

 

[Dabbler]

I needed some 1.25" square X 10 foot for a project, and steel inc was 7.20 per foot and Federal was 5.25. I'd love to buy from Steel inc, but for 3$ more gas, I'll do Federal.

 

[PeterT]

I know this has probably been mentioned but is Federal kind of a full length shop or do they cut or min $?

 

[Dabbler]

I can buy 10 foot or 20 foot lengths. Mostly from pressure by Steel Inc in selling half-lengths.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Federal has no min $. They cut to 10ft or 12ft segments which is good enough for most pp. Maybe if you paid more someone would cut it more or you can just use your own angle grinder.

Given millenium pricing I doubt they should even be listed as a source of anything but super specialty metals - they are almost double metal supermarket for mild steel and these guys I have not used for ... almost a decade now.

 

[Janger]

I can buy 10 foot or 20 foot lengths. Mostly from pressure by Steel Inc in selling half-lengths.

Federal now has a big sign saying no cutting. So full or half lengths is your choice.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Well you can still cut yourself if you really need to but the 10ft lengths fit even in small pickup such as Tacoma so not a big deal.

 

[Dabbler]

I was contrasting with the days that only whole lengths could be bought. THey'd cut it in half, but you had to buy the whole length.

When steel Inc begans selling half-lengths, Federal eventually started selling half lengths also.

 

[aubster]

I went to Steel Inc. on Saturday, prices were higher than Federal, but lower than metal supermarket. I did buy some stuff from him, I know what its like to try and get a new business off the ground, apparently there is a new owner, Dylan Hobel. It was the first time I met him, he was really nice, the steel was stored inside with no surface rust. Hopefully he will get more business and be able to order in bigger quantities and get his prices down. Just a thought, I wonder would it be worthwhile for someone who owns a business selling steel to get aligned with a scrap dealer to get smaller pieces and sell them at a profit. With most stuff metal supermarkets prices are really high. It would be nice to have a place to buy scrap stuff at a reasonable price.

 

[aubster]

I went to Steel Inc. on Saturday, prices were higher than Federal, but lower than metal supermarket. I did buy some stuff from him, I know what its like to try and get a new business off the ground, apparently there is a new owner, Dylan Hobel. It was the first time I met him, he was really nice, the steel was stored inside with no surface rust. Hopefully he will get more business and be able to order in bigger quantities and get his prices down. Just a thought, I wonder would it be worthwhile for someone who owns a business selling steel to get aligned with a scrap dealer to get smaller pieces and sell them at a profit. With most stuff metal supermarkets prices are really high. It would be nice to have a place to buy scrap stuff at a reasonable price.

 

[Tom Kitta]

I was contrasting with the days that only whole lengths could be bought. THey'd cut it in half, but you had to buy the whole length.

When steel Inc begans selling half-lengths, Federal eventually started selling half lengths also.

I bought half lengths from Federal metals before Steel inc was the thing and the Steel inc previous owner worked at federal metals. Maybe they only offered 20ft / 24ft minimum say 10 years ago. Maybe you got some other guy that was unwilling to be helpful - Steel inc guy was always a wonderful person to work with. Or maybe they had a minimum 20ft purchase but you could get larger odd amount - I remember getting 70ft. Or they had secret minimum amount you needed to spend so no one bothers them with 10ft of 3/8 rod. Or maybe my memory is starting to fail me.

I only got stuff once from Steel Inc. right after he opened up the business. Already was more then FM. Now they are even more. Him as well as new owner simply don't have the volume to compete with FM.

As for cut offs the business model is very difficult unless you go MS prices. I experienced it myself when trying to sell some steel. I talked to Steel Inc guy about it. Sure you could get a bin with scrap metal from scrap yards or even buy from some steel manufacturer at double the rate FM pays (say 200 per t). But imagine the storage, transport costs needed in addition to very low volume of sales. If someone knows FM owner he or she can ask them how much money they made from cut offs. I bet it will not be more then few 1000 per month max. This is side business at most if you have storage space.

I asked Steel inc guy about different steels - no profit there as volume too low. I asked about 1/4 lengths - again what would he do with some odd cutoffs. Imagine he offered 3" square. He might have to wait a year or more for 1/4 length to sell! Who wants space and money frozen for such a long time?

You can always compete with me on auctions - there is a lot of cut offs to be had. I mostly need square. I have few lifetime supplies of large rounds stock.

Maybe if someone had a farm or lots of land and was willing to use some of it for some scrap storage and you signed some disclaimer like on a car scrap yard this could work as side income.

 

[PeterT]

Tom, what is your $/lb rule of thumb at auctions for steel or does it vary a lot by shape/alloy etc.
Like if a guy saw some odd length sticks of 0.5" x 4", what would that typically go for?

 

[Tom Kitta]

I look at how useful given metal is to me vs. current price of scrap and effort to scrap what I don't like.

So its not exactly price per lbs.

Each auction is different and you are dealing with "different" market. Even same auction company few days apart. Sometimes the difference can be 10x or 30x so huge.

Generally if I see lots of useful steel for me in a lot I will bid say 2x price of scrap for it. So 10c per lbs. Note that frequently the lot is not even close to 100% useful. Note I am looking for a deal.

Sometimes I may want to go higher - if say lot would contain a lot of square or rectangle pieces of stock in larger sizes - I could double or even triple above price.

As for your example sticks of 1/2 inch rod are not going to fetch a high price at auction unless it is some kind of special steel maybe precision polished. Say a whole 5 gal pile filled with pieces of 1/2" to 1" cutoffs from mild steel or 1018 or even 4140 would go for $5. BUT if there are at least two people that want it then it may go for something ridiculous like $30 or even more.

Also large quantities lower the price - large lot - cheaper per lbs - or many. many lots of the same. The example of 10x or 30x above is from recent auction with spring steel (it was truck suspension shop). They had so much of it that on main auction it went for scrap price - like 5c to 10c an lbs - whole lots with loads of it went for 10 CAD. Some people did not pick up their lots and they had mini sale... few weeks later same stuff went for close to 300 CAD (!!!)

 

[Everett]

A couple weeks ago I got in on an auction and got a truckload of cut plate circles and arcs, from pipe flanges and such. It was one of those things where I couldn't resist. Picked it up Wednesday, still in the process of unloading, sorting and stacking, all around time chasing my toddler son. Figure by the time buyers' fees and tax was in it is about 13¢/lb. Only issue is that I don't have a torch or plasma cutter at home but access to the ones at work so no real biggie. If anyone needs a piece of 3/4" or 1" plate let me know, just need to figure out details for cutting a piece off. I'm just west of Edmonton, for what it's worth.

 

[PeterT]

Everett, that's a nice offer.
Tom what auctions do you go to around Calgary that would be best for metal prospecting in particular? I'd like to take one in one day just for a looksee.
I have to make an inventory list of my 'thickish' projects, then maybe I can search more sensibly.
Does cast iron come up very often or mostly plate type steel?

 

[Dabbler]

Everett, I have just started designing a project that needs some steel in that range... Maybe a reason for a field trip!

 

[Tom Kitta]

Cast iron is a bit rare unless its a piece of a machine. You see a bit more often aluminium and stainless.

I would look into Michner Allan Auctioneering and Club bid. Steel that can be of use to you may take some waiting for. Both are online auctions but you are advised to see stuff in person before bidding.

 

[Chicken lights]

I’ve gone to scrap yards before and tried the game of finding what you want in the size you want. In my experience it’s kind of a time waster unless you’re already making a trip there.
As much as MS gets a bad rep maybe my local one isn’t that bad. Last time I was there I wanted 5/16” stainless rod, they had an 8’ piece but said they only show 4’ in stock, so they could only charge me for 4’
Something like that but it was $15 or so for 8’ of stainless rod