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So should I make a real stink regarding bait and switch pricing

TorontoBuilder

TorontoBuilder

Sapientia et Doctrina Stabilitas
I ordered a wood working tool from a well known but small firm in toronto.

They advertised a price on their website and said tool is available to order at $305 + HST, deposit required to order. I place an order on november 4th 2024 and made a $100 deposit.

Now this morning I get a call saying my tool has come in, but the price has increased to $425 + HST. That's a whopping 39% increase in 30 days. At no point prior to now did the store call me to say hey our supplier raised prices and offer me the opportunity to cancel the order and shop elsewhere.

Now, the law is firm. They sold it at a price and I have emailed receipts to show I have a lawful contract. Do I demand they honour the pricing or try to work with them on something mutually acceptable. Should they absorb some of the increase for failing to check the price prior to ordering from supplier? I think so.

What do people think is fair.

ps I do shop at this place every so often, and I sort of need this tool and can't get it elsewhere before christmas at this point in time
 
You have a valid claim, unless there is something in the purchase agreement that allows them to change prices without notice, like Rogers and their TV boxes.
 
UPDATE:

I went to the store. The clerk said the owner/manager is not in today, and cannot be called because they were sick.

She kept interrupting when I tried to explain that the company Woodchuckers.com entered into a sales contract, and had two separate opportunities to inform me prior to today that the supplier had raised their prices.

Long story short, the clerk called the boss after all and the boss refused to accept anything less that $425 plus tax for an item we had a sales contract for them to supply at $305 plus tax. I informed asked the clerk to advise the owner that I did not accept that, and having a signed contract there were going to be future consequences for their failure to honour the contract or discuss a fair resolution that meets the expectations of the buyer and seller. I then asked for my deposit back and left.

This bothers me for several reasons. One, they should have verified the price when they placed the order with the supplier. But they insist that the supplier only raised the price today. This is nonsense and NOT how distributors sell product to retailers. IMO they lied to me about this.

Two, I emailed Woodchuckers.com on November 20th asking for an update on my order. I did not receive a reply, but at that time they should have checked on the order status and been able to inform me of the price change had they chosen to. IMO this was deliberate avoidance of my email top push this issue down the road hoping I'd just accept fate and pay ~40% more.

I purchased the item (The parf guide system) as a christmas gift I intended to give to the good friend whose shop we have been using for the past few months and I am now left without a gift and little time to acquire a new one.

So, my recourse now is to buy the product elsewhere and then take woodchuckers to small claims court for the difference in the purchase price and the original sales contract that woodchuckers agreed to. If they had simply said they would offer to give me 50% of the increased price in wood I'd have accepted and they'd not have been out anything.

Now I'll take them to small claims court, I'll subpoena their email records to their supplier, their website records and change history, and their phone records to their supplier, as well as their suppliers communications with the retailer. I'll add the costs of this to my claim.

They made a serious mistake
 
Tom Kitta said:
Make them honor it. You have a contract.

You can also contact these guys: https://www.ontario.ca/page/consumer-protection-ontario

I had a similar thing happen once when I paid by CC and they charged "new" price - a dispute with CC resolved this and I got a refund and they paid a fine to CC company for investigation.
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Thanks Tom, I'll definitely pursue that route as well, because based on the statements of the company employee as to how and when they find out prices on their orders I get the impression that such is standard operating procedure for woodchuckers. That's my opinion anyway.
 
Yikes, I've dealt with them before and never had an issue, but also never had this problem.
FWIW I have ordered lots of stuff from Axminster (who carry the Park system) and always had excellent service.
Seems the price from Axminster has gone up substantially:
Old (out of stock which I suspect means NLA)
www.axminstertools.com

UJK Parf Mk II Guide System

Do you want to create a custom-made bench top? Or a portable cutting board? Perhaps a replacement MFT top? With the award winning UJK Parf Mk II Guide System, you can do all of this and more. The versatile jig system allows you to make a simple...
www.axminstertools.com www.axminstertools.com
New:
www.axminstertools.com

UJK Parf Plus Guide System

The UJK Parf Plus Guide System is the perfect combination of the award-winning UJK Parf MkII Guide System and the innovative UJK Parf Protractor. Proudly designed and British made to elevate your woodworking projects to new heights of precision and...
www.axminstertools.com www.axminstertools.com
 
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DavidR8 said:
Yikes, I've dealt with them before and never had an issue, but also never had this problem.
FWIW I have ordered lots of stuff from Axminster (who carry the Park system) and always had excellent service.
Click to expand...
I've purchased wood blocks from time to time from woodchuckers and they always seemed nice. But I never ordered anything that had to be special ordered into the store (most of their tools) because it has been easier to procure tools elsewhere.

I was going to order the parf guide directly from Axminster tools for $340 and they had them in stock but I wanted to support a local business so I checked woodchuckers and they had them at $305 as special order item. I was told that they were ordering it the day I placed my order (Nov 4th) and paid my deposit and that it should arrive in 2 weeks.

I didn't hear back so on the 20th I emailed asking for an update... zip, nada, crickets.

Just based on their poor business practices and terrible customer service and communication I'll not shop there ever again.

On further investigation just now I see that what apparently happened when I visited axminster tools page I bookmarked with the parf system Mk2. The system is out of stock now. But axminster just released the parf guide PLUS system at a price of $425.

It is my opinion that woodchuckers failed to place my order with axminster on Nov 4th, and only did so after receiving my email enquiry on Nov 20th. By which time axminster no longer had the parf guide system mk two in stock. I believe that woodchuckers just figured I'd accept a different product for $120 more. This is not sound customer service if this is indeed what occured. I can't for the life of me think how the events unfolded any other way.

A key to customer service is communication. This experience only soured me more on shopping local.
 
About the only mistake you made was taking your deposit back.

When I first read your question, I would have recommended that you seek a compromise.

Now I see it a bit different. They are being hard nosed and greedy. That kind of behaviour merits an attitude adjustment.

Add his cost to your subpoena request.

When you took your deposit back, I think you might have made the contract null & void. I'm not sure how a small claims judge will see that though.

Consider going in to see the owner when he is there so you can talk sensibly to him face-to-face.

Essentially, this whole thing will end up costing both of you more than it is materially worth. But only you can judge the true value.
 
Susquatch said:
About the only mistake you made was taking your deposit back.

When I first read your question, I would have recommended that you seek a compromise.

Now I see it a bit different. They are being hard nosed and greedy. That kind of behaviour merits an attitude adjustment.

Add his cost to your subpoena request.

When you took your deposit back, I think you might have made the contract null & void. I'm not sure how a small claims judge will see that though.

Consider going in to see the owner when he is there so you can talk sensibly to him face-to-face.

Essentially, this whole thing will end up costing both of you more than it is materially worth. But only you can judge the true value.
Click to expand...
I dont think taking my deposit renders the sale null and void. They refused to supply a parf guide mk2 at the agreed price. I merely argue that they refused to deliver and never intend to deliver ergo I needed deposit back to secure parf guide elsewhere but I still have damages.
 
TorontoBuilder said:
I dont think taking my deposit renders the sale null and void.
Click to expand...

I don't know for sure John. It was a red flag for me. Regardless, you can expect him to raise it to support his position and it will be up to a judge to decide. I think you are right that it doesn't negate your damages.
 
The original price may have been just an estimate because they had to special order. Depends how it was worded on the invoice I guess.
 
Martin w said:
The original price may have been just an estimate because they had to special order. Depends how it was worded on the invoice I guess.
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nope the bill of sale states a price, a deposit and a balance due. It is a legally binding sales agreement.

The company failed to fulfill it is two different ways. They ordered the wrong product and they failed to deliver the product.

But the real point is their business is the worst I've ever encountered for basic communications. The whole issue could have and should have been avoided with an email or phone call to me when they finally placed my order with axminster. Had they done so I may have well said ok I'll take the newer unit at the higher price since I dont want to be left empty handed at christmas. Or I could have had a month to look for a new gift for my friend.
 
May be different in different jurisdictions but my experience in small claims court was that a win means very little.
Trying to collect on a bounced cheque. Judge goes You're right, that guy owes you money!
There is no process to enforce payment. It is up to you to file a lien if need be, (more money and paperwork) and then possibly get the Sheriff department to confiscate something of value, (more money and paperwork again).
A small claims judgement is a moral victory, but little else.
 
Susquatch said:
When you took your deposit back, I think you might have made the contract null & void. I'm not sure how a small claims judge will see that though.
Click to expand...

This is 100% true. The transaction never occurred and a judge won't hear the case. A deposit secured the original sale. Return and acceptance of the deposit nullifies the sales contract. I have been involved in a very similar case and return of the deposit cancelled the contract.
 
Doggggboy said:
May be different in different jurisdictions but my experience in small claims court was that a win means very little.
Trying to collect on a bounced cheque. Judge goes You're right, that guy owes you money!
There is no process to enforce payment. It is up to you to file a lien if need be, (more money and paperwork) and then possibly get the Sheriff department to confiscate something of value, (more money and paperwork again).
A small claims judgement is a moral victory, but little else.
Click to expand...

Its not worth it for something like this as the filing costs are more than yhe amount he's been wronged (Even with a full victory, courts in Canada don't aware 100% of costs.), but I've found it a very effective tool especially when you sue a business. Even with a full victory, courts in Canada don't aware 100% of costs. Most business people are smart enough not to ignore it and they really don't want waste the time so settle.

One thing is you don't issue the claim for $500, you do it for $10,000. They can't ignore it at that amount and while Canadian courts don't award punitive damages, it puts the fear into someone and motivates to settle because they're thinking a really, really bad day in court could cost them the 10,000.

Not like I'm Perry Mason, but in the eight or ten times its happened (for a few I was the dastardly defendant lol) they've all settle before or during the mandatory settlement conference which is moderated by a judge.
 
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