Doggggboy
Ultra Member
6.9 to 1
And I'll forget that before anyone even reads it.
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Several Regions have held meetups already, but others are being planned or are evaluating the interest. The Calgary Area Meetup is set for Saturday July 12th at 10am. The signup thread is here! Arbutus has also explored interest in a Fraser Valley meetup but it seems members either missed his thread or had other plans. Let him know if you are interested in a meetup later in the year by posting here! Slowpoke is trying to pull together an Ottawa area meetup later this summer. No date has been selected yet, so let him know if you are interested here! We are not aware of any other meetups being planned this year. If you are interested in doing something in your area, let everyone know and make it happen! Meetups are a great way to make new machining friends and get hands on help in your area. Don’t be shy, sign up and come, or plan your own meetup!
Rain in Edmonton
- Thread starter Susquatch
- Start date
And I'll forget that before anyone even reads it.
LOL. Thx. Prolly not going to memorize that one.
7 to 1 is close enough. Most pressure gauges are not that accurate.
Meh. I was in school while they tried to obliterate the Imperial measurements system. I was still in school, when News items were starting to point out that despite the Metric System supposedly being superior, they were having to teach Imperial Measurements to College and University students, so that they could understand stuff like that the majority of the prairies was surveyed out in 1 mile, by 2 mile grids, or that (ironically, since they are not actually) houses were built with 2x-dimensional lumber, and if you needed to repair those, you needed to understand the dimensional differences, between Metric and Imperial measure.
The only guys that can live without knowledge of legacy systems, are guys that have no responsibility to go back and fix what they screwed up, yesterday!
I got a call one night, about 1 in the morning, from a Farmer Friend that needed to know if I had a 17mm socket, He had NO Metric tools. Turned out the "special" bolts that GM used to secure his clutch to the flywheel in his "not Metric truck", were Metric...
Reality is, even the Inch, is defined in Law, as being 25.4mm. A pound of meat (a days ration, usually) is 454 grams, or near enough, half a Kilo. A Liter and a Quart are darn near enough to being equal too. As are the breakdowns, with 250 Ml ~= 1 cup. Etc.
A fella could do a lot worse than to simply shrug and get on with understanding both the Legacy systems AND the modern ones.
The only guys that can live without knowledge of legacy systems, are guys that have no responsibility to go back and fix what they screwed up, yesterday!
I got a call one night, about 1 in the morning, from a Farmer Friend that needed to know if I had a 17mm socket, He had NO Metric tools. Turned out the "special" bolts that GM used to secure his clutch to the flywheel in his "not Metric truck", were Metric...
Reality is, even the Inch, is defined in Law, as being 25.4mm. A pound of meat (a days ration, usually) is 454 grams, or near enough, half a Kilo. A Liter and a Quart are darn near enough to being equal too. As are the breakdowns, with 250 Ml ~= 1 cup. Etc.
A fella could do a lot worse than to simply shrug and get on with understanding both the Legacy systems AND the modern ones.
Except the metric system is confusing. You jump from a centimetre right to a metre. I don't find metric to be logical at all
Metric is always odd numbers, too. It's always 37,500 kg or 2200 pounds per ton, the metric system, math wise, is weird
DPittman
Ultra Member
Well actually...
It goes centimeter, then decimeter, then meter.
Metric is not odd numbers it is always even, that why it makes sense. It is based on powers of 10 and has standardized units.
1 metric tonne is 1000kg
2200 lbs in 1 tonne ....so maybe it's the imperial system that's always odd?
I have a book "Beyond Measure" that was recommended by a forum member (I forget who) that reviews the history and function of modern metrology. It's a GREAT READ!
The inch has a very colourful history. Before international standardization, the inch varied slightly between different countries and even regions within countries. Historically, it had definitions based on things like three grains of barley, dry and round, placed end to end lengthwise, or the breadth of the King's thumb.
As the world changed because of the industrial revolution, trade and science demanded more precision. In 1791, Post Revolution France, eager to change the world, adopted the metric system and based the meter on one ten millionth of the distance along a meridian from the north pole to the equator passing through Paris.
Along the way, they decided to create a standard platinum-uridium bar, and in 1889, another better standard bar was created and stored in Paris that became the new meter relegating the polar distance to history.
Finally, they arbitrarily decided to standardize the meter as 1/299,792,458 of the speed of light in a vacuum in meters/second. This tied the meter to a physical constant of the universe. But still hardly a perfect number. Just an arbitrary one.
It is important to know that the British inch was also evolving to become more standard at the same time. And this is where is gets interesting. Proponents of the metric system like to say that the inch was arbitrarily defined as 2.54 centimeters. But proponents of the imperial system like to say that the cm is defined as 1/2.54 inches. And, since both can be arbitrarily defined in terms of the speed of light, it's actually better to just say that 1" = 2.54cm and not say that one is based on the other. Instead they are both based on the speed of light.
Of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the decimal system of 10s is not perfect. It requires all sorts of macinations to be described in digital terms. On the other hand, if our ancestors had left their thumbs out and only counted their fingers, we would all be using an octal base, and OCTAL ACTUALLY IS A PERFECT SYSTEM. One that requires no macinations! Both multiplication and division would be as simple as shifting digits. We could all do it in our heads!
The only downside is that I'd already be well over 100...... Octal 100 is decimal 64. So anyone over 64 is over 100 in Octal.
Now, about time........ What a frigging mess.....
historicalarms
Ultra Member
Wasn't it metric-imperial conversion screw up at refueling that brought that plane down at Gimli Man.
And I know there were thousands of acres of crop land burnt with weed sprayer miscalculations for a couple years after metric conversion
And I know there were thousands of acres of crop land burnt with weed sprayer miscalculations for a couple years after metric conversion
Well no, an imperial ton is 2000 pounds, so to me that's more logical than a metric tonne being 2200 pounds. That's why I say metric is never round numbers. Maybe if you stay working in metric it's ok but it's the converting to imperial that makes metric messy?
What the heck is a decimeter?? I've honestly never heard of that
Sprayers are all US measure around here. Sometimes you also see Imperial. Rarely metric. The mandatory course is all US for sprayers and metric for the chemicals.
My sprayer is a Hardi made in Denmark.
The hardi nozzles are rated in USGal/minute at 40 psi. They do provide metric equivalents but they are flaky numbers that follow no particular sensible pattern. Even the Hardi and TeeJet nozzle part numbers and colour reflect the GPM at 40 psi rating.
Pink is 0.075 GPM at 40 psi
Orange is 0.1 GPM at 40 psi
Green is 0.15 GPM at 40 psi
Yellow is 0.2 GPM at 40 psi
Lilac is 0.25 GPM at 40 psi
Blue is 0.3 GPM at 40 psi
Red is 0.4 GPM at 40 psi
Brown is 0.5 GPM at 40 psi
Grey is 0.6 GPM at 40 psi
White is 0.8 GPM at 40 psi
Light Blue is 1.0 GPM at 40 psi
The tank volume is US gallons
Speed is always Miles / hour
Application is always US gallons of water per Acre
But you buy chemicals in metric Litres.
You apply Chemicals in Litres per Acre mixed with water in US gallons per acre.
So a "typical" application is 10 or 15 or 20 US Gallons of water per acre mixed with 1 Litre per acre of Herbicide applied at 4 miles per hour using the right nozzle to apply the above rates in US Gallons per minute.
It's a Fk'ing mess. No wonder somebody torched a few acres.
That said, since I am pretty metrologically bilingual, I find it pretty easy. As long as you know the numbers and units, it's relatively simple. I have not screwed up yet.
Did that book mention why the USA isn't metric? I don't know all the facts but there was a ship sailing from Europe with some metric standard rods, it either sank or was pirated, the standards were lost. So the USA stayed (mostly) imperial.
DPittman
Ultra Member
Ya and it can get much more confusing and complicated than your scenario when you throw in actual active ingredients per acre with all of the above. The US gallon thing has always annoyed me.
If it did, I don't remember it.
My boss was one of Canada's Metric Committee Members at the time representing the entire Auto Industry in Canada. I did a lot of the grunt work for him so I am very familiar with what happened. I don't ever remember that happening.
What I do remember is that units of measure were state controlled back then. The US feds did enact legislation that permitted the use of metric standards but didn't require them. They just left that to the states to decide. Most states didn't want to force such a major change on the public or their industrial bases.
That said, my boss was successful in convincing the entire auto industry in North America (US, Canada, and Mexico) to go metric. That's why all vehicles have metric fasteners today.
On the other hand, metrication was a federal responsibility in Canada. The Canadian federal government was convinced that if Canada went Metric, the US would follow. Total morons. We all know how well that turned out.....
Well the ship I'm referring to would've been around the same time you're referencing them making a metric standard, in the 17-1800's
There is something to that, I think legally the states can use metric if they choose
Big trucks must follow different rules then? Mine is probably 80% imperial except the engine
The oddball number only comes as a result of conversion to Imperial. Within the metric system a tonne its a nice round 1000 kg.
And to be specific you need to further define short ton vs. long ton in Imperial
Apparently the term "ton" was associated with a large barrel (tun) used for wine, which could hold about 2,000 pounds
I see, that changes things. I personally doubt that event had anything to do with national standards adoption but rather just the desire to maintain international "standards" of all forms in the national depository of the time. My guess is that any references to it as a turning point are just the musings and interests of people following it or rewriting history.
Yes.
There was nothing "rule" or regulatory about it. The industry just decided to do it on a voluntary basis. There were companies that took a more phased in or partial approach than others.
The main driver was global parts sourcing. Nobody argued against that.
Small vehicles are much more global than large ones. Also, large trucks are much more highly customized for the individual buyers than light duty trucks or cars. So it isn't a surprise to me at all to hear that your truck has more imperial content than my jeep.
Right, I knew there was 3 different tons. We commonly use the short ton. Where would you use a long ton?
During the mid-to-late 1800's, when the USA led the world in mass producing watches with actual interchangeable parts, most of the work done was in Metric Measures. Well, the stuff that was not being designated in French Lignes, anyways. LOL!
IIIRC, Metric was deemed to be Legal For Trade use, about that time too. Sunk ships was a fact of doing business in that era, heck, still is, I doubt any actual blame or credit could be attached to a delivery of a 'Standard', not taking place, as such events were merely a delay to getting what you wanted or needed.
A deep dive in to Weights and Measures will show you that there are hundreds of different units that are either so specialized, that hardly anyone outside their specific use base, is more than barely aware of them, all the way to those units that are almost universally known. @Susquatch mentioned a Tun, as a wine barrel, but there are standard sized barrel types ranging from tiny to massive, each with their own defined volume and name. Kegs, Barrels, Hogsheads, and many more...
My very minor beef with the Scientific definition of the Standards being defined by the speed of light, is that there are so few ways to ensure that your physically produced 'Standard', is actually correct. When was the last time you had hands on equipment capable of measuring the speed of light, let alone how far it travels in a tiny fraction of a second exactly?
Long tons are used in bulk shipping, as well as ship displacements. Coincidentally (I doubt it was coincidence) there are 20 Hundredweight, in a long ton, a Hundredweight, being a Standard of measure that is 112 pounds...
Reinforces the old saying. "The GREAT thing about Standards, is that there are so many of them to choose from!"
Tom O
Ultra Member
And don’t forget that satellite that crashed because of the farmed out components measuring distance to readings in metric instead of inches I believe.
I knew about it, but it wasn't me who said it here Trev. I believe it was @PeterT - another fellow like me who likes to clutter up his brain with a lot of useless stuff.
My very minor beef with the Scientific definition of the Standards being defined by the speed of light, is that there are so few ways to ensure that your physically produced 'Standard', is actually correct. When was the last time you had hands on equipment capable of measuring the speed of light, let alone how far it travels in a tiny fraction of a second exactly?
While that is true, I have no beef with it all. Yes, the speed of light is a physical constant that very few can measure. It's also very arbitrary. However, it is used in laboratories that can measure it and have the technology to be able to produce extremely precise standards from it. These "Master standards" are then used to create highly accurate copies that are sent to metrological reference centers all over the world, who then make copies for their user base. Each level of copy has a slightly lower level of precision that is then copied again and again until it finally ends up in our hands as certified gauge blocks precise enough for our needs.
As I understand the system, the most accurate copies (but still just copies) available for purchase by rich outfits are grade K, then 00 used in calibration laboratories, then 0 used for high-precision calibration of workshop equipment and in inspection areas, then various lesser levels used in quality labs all the way to shop floor blocks that are regularly abused by guys like me.
My lab grade blocks are many many levels down from measuring the distance that light travels. That's ok with me. I'm happy knowing that they are as good as it makes sense for me to afford.