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OZ25 collets

DPittman

Active Member
#1
Hi
I'm just wondering if anyone uses OZ25 collet? I've got a set with a mt3 holder/chuck that I use on my lathe. They were cheap but as far as I can tell they are very obscure. Grizzly tool sold a set of them. I would love to find hex and square collects for the chuck but I can't seem to find such a thing anywhere on the interweb.
 

Dabbler

Well-Known Member
#2
Have you checked out if the name is a synonym for one of the other collets? The picures I found look very much like ER40 collets, with a similar range. Even so I've never seen hex/square collets for the ER40 system.
 

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
#3
I've heard of them but know little other than usually associated with euro machines?
http://www.industributiken.se/english/oz25-collet-din-6388-form-b-462-e.html

post #4 indicates something similar
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/hello-all-question-about-er-vs-oz-collets-281080/

Like Dabbler mentions, if you can get hold of the official DIN type taper/dimensional standards off the net or machinery handbook you stand a better chance of comparing if they replicate something more common or are a standalone. I see some OZ25 in the AliExpress type sellers if that's helpful but who knows about quality. Guys have similar issues with older generation Euro tool & cutter grinders like Deckel for example where their collets are obscure or really spendy here. Good luck & tell us what you learn.
 

DPittman

Active Member
#4
From my preliminary research so far... I haven't come across ANY square or hex collet other than the 5C system. I'm still trying to get my head around the 16, 20, 32, 40er collet system. (And I buy a OZ25 system just to be really different!)

Yes it appears the OZ25/EOC25 system (DIN 6388) is most popular in wood working systems particularly over seas.

The OZ25 collet appear to have a longer area to grip the material or tool that it is holding. It appears they have about the same compression range as other ER collets. My set appears to be very well made and accurate. I did buy some other metric collets off amazon/ebay that were not as nicely made as my main set.

This is my set http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-MT3-Quick-Change-Collet-8-pc-Set/T26689
 

DPittman

Active Member
#5
I think I just clued in to why I'm not likely to ever find any Er collet system similar to mine with square or hex holding capabilities.....these collets are made to hold tooling not material! The 5C system that allows material to pass through (no drawbar) is much better for material holding.

Everyone else probably already knew all that. I just need to figure out why there are so many different Er collets.
 

JohnW

Active Member
#6
I think the OZ25's are also known as "full grip" or "fullgrip" collets. I have a set of them and a few years ago managed to buy a couple of additional collets from Enco when they still existed.
 

DPittman

Active Member
#7
I think the OZ25's are also known as "full grip" or "fullgrip" collets. I have a set of them and a few years ago managed to buy a couple of additional collets from Enco when they still existed.
Do you use them just for tool holding in a mill or do you try to use them to hold material in a lathe like I do?
 

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
#8
Collets don't care what they are holding, as long as the material fits the size properly, decently accurate & surface finish. You can hold an end mill in a collet & do milling. Or you can hold a part in a collet & do some machining on the part, like a collet chuck in a lathe or a rotary spin indexer in the mill. They are kind of a precision work holding accessory that offers repeatability, concentricity & grip, so don't put rough or eccentric stock in them & crank down or you risk damaging the collet.
 

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
#9
ER collets can span a slightly wider range on a given nominal size versus 5C. So some guys prefer them for that reason because even a 1/32" increment 5C can amount to a large set. Ideally 1/64" is a better range... until money enters the picture. 5C has square & possibly hex profiles but they aren't as common & usually confined to nominal sizes. ER system has a largish nut which provides the clamping force. For the most part this is may not be an issue. But on some operations the nut itself can get in the way, which may mean a different ER set. For example I have an ER-20 set to hold small end mills, particularly metric shank sizes.

The other factor in all this is tooling. If you have a 5C lathe chuck, collet block, spin indexer... you want to standardize on 5C collets. There are ER equivalents to this but generally ER is more arbor based.
 
#12
here's my 2-bits:
Wife went to Modern Tool and asked for a 'common' R8 collet set as a gift. I was expecting ER20-32 size range when I opened it and it was OZ25?!? I asked what/where she got this and she said that's what they said were 'common'. Looked them over/researched and indeed found the same info re: Asian-market only collets- they are a hybrid between the TA and ER sets...but fit neither. Very difficult to find other collets to replace/fill out the set.

I marched back to Modern tool with her receipt and told them how disappointed I was that they duped her in to buying this. They claimed 'its what we sell with every machine' and I called BS...there is NO machine shop in this city that would use those...this is just a cheapie product that they dump on unsuspecting non-commercial/new customers. Even unused they wouldn't take the set back so told them that I'd never buy a machine from them...bought 2 since then from elsewhere.

Ended up selling the set privately at a substantial loss and at least I had the ethics to tell that person that they were uncommon....if they were happy just to have the set at the reduced price then they were usable.
 
#13
Good to know of the horrible return policy of Modern tool.

As for my collet set...i am pleased with them that they were cheap and they seem well made but they are oddballs that's for sure! They fit in quite well with my machinery and skills in that aspect!
 
#14
I made only one purchase at Modern tool. And I will not ever buy anything there again, period. They simply... lie. Highly NOT RECOMMENDED place to buy.

So I saw some time ago a tool post. I was there to look over the machines and I only saw the TOP of the tool post & it was in the box. I asked what is it and they told me its Dorian - sure enough it looked like a Dorian style tool post from the top (with the massive top). So I bought it... Sure enough it is some cheap Chinese clone.

At least I didn't pay fortune for it - about the same price as online minus the shipping/ tax.

Just when I though some professional shop selling to high end customers at a high price will be a model of honesty they burst my bubble.

Anyone has any DA 100 collets around? They are rare and my dad's small mill uses them. I only have some DA 180 collets & they are too big.
 

Dabbler

Well-Known Member
#15
I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences with Modern Tool. I have a bit of an insight into the workings there and some experiences that might explain the difference.

BTW: I'm not trying to contradict your positions. What happened, happened, and it sounds like you've very right to be miffed. I've negotiated some awesome prices for some very good equipment, but all small purchases - in the $20-$200 range.

I have 3 friends with Modern lathes and they are all very happy with their purchases. The ones I am referring to are the larger lathes 18", 16" and an older 15", not the 14X40. They all had great post sales support and great delivery experiences.

-- that being said, I've knocked heads with the parts guy twice, so I only talk to George (the owner) when I need parts. The last straw was when I wanted an extra 4-way tool post for my lathe. The sales guy (Dahl) suggested that it would be at a good price. the Parts guy wanted north of 200$ for it, so I told Dahl to put it back, and was turning to leave. He followed me out the office door and asked what my price was. I bought it for 20$. I told Dahl that I'd only deal with him or George for parts in the future.

So if you were dealing the the 'parts guy' (I don't know his name) I can see how he'd try to rip you off. I'll talk to George on Monday and relate your experiences to him. He will want to know.
 

kevin.decelles

Active Member
Premium Member
#16
I purchased the C0636A x 1000 (they call it a 14x40) (the chinese /cheaper one) in March -- experience was pretty good, great delivery. I dealt with Dahl as well.

I wanted a new machine and this was in my price range. It is the exact same as the Precision Matthews PM-1440E-LB PRECISION 14″X40″ (same schematics part for part) and I didn't have to play the US/CAD exchange game, didn't have to pay shipping, work with a broker etc. And I had it 20 days after deciding I wanted it.

That said, I wouldn't say I would be comfortable going in there to just 'browse parts' etc. I don't get that "hobbyist welcome" vibe. I haven't needed any service, and the machine is what I expected. if I were shopping a new mill, I'd likely go there because if it is the same as the Precision Matthews, I save a lot of grief.

Like Dabbler, I won't/can't discount the experience of others. I've had good/bad experiences at most of the local haunts (Busy Bee, Metal Supermarkets etc.). Sometimes I have to psych myself in the car before I can go into Busy Bee. I really have to "need" something pretty bad before I do. I'd rather pay twice as much and get it from KBC. The funny thing is, I'm sure if we had a KBC store that I could go into, something about someone would piss me off and I'd feel the same way. Funny how that goes. Even funnier, both of my mills are Craftex and I like them for what they are. Is it the people? Tough to say.

I appreciate the feedback and opinions from the members on vendors. They need to realize that we all have choices on where we spend our money -- and shafting one guy is really like shafting 25 or 30. So many companies have seen revenue/business go up once people leave/retire from a company. The good companies do something about it. Dabbler, I hope your discussion with George goes well.
 

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
#17
As above comment, don't want to turn this post into a Modern review but thought I'd mention my own dealings. Last year the parts person I dealt with went above & beyond the call of duty to source parts from for my '97 King 14x40. I bought lathe & King RF-45 mill new back when they were King distributer. They went to factory-direct machines shortly thereafter so haven't represented King brand for 18+years. So for diminishing available spares, they had minimal profit incentive for their time & effort other than to help me out of a bind. Working through a Taiwan parts house representing the original factory which no longer exists with only my SR#s to go on. JohnC has the same lathe under different name. I tried that distributer channel in Edmonton & it was a significantly more expensive & delivery time. King Quebec? who supposedly 'supports' the line was 100% useless. Zero interest, no returned calls, nada. I contacted Precision Mathews USA (Matt) & he reiterated the same thing - vintage parts becoming scarce & wasn't too keen to offer support to non-PM customers although he didn't say outright No if it was no return deal. I recently bought a mill through Modern but that delivery just consummated a week ago, so intend to post on that separately when life settles down. I haven't purchased tooling / accessories from them so cant comment there.
 
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