Options on wish list

[Susquatch]

So with using 5C or ER40 collets to hold the work piece, what happens when the the round stock you buy isn't precisely the same size?
I buy most of my metal from McKinnon Metals, https://mckinnonmetals.com/ and some times what is sold as 1/2" or 1" is somewhat under or over sized, these collets don't look like they they have a lot of give in either direction.
Would I be damaging the accuracy of the collets by using them for nominal size stock?

These are common questions and there is some disagreement on the answers. Even amongst very experienced members.

Most collets have some range built into them. But all I do is make shims out of pop cans. They are very uniform thickness and will take up enough space to hold parts quite well. I cut the can into strips and then cut to size with a small gap to accommodate the downsizing. Sometimes I might use several layers. Make the strips wide enough to use the entire clamping depth of the collet. But you don't really need to worry about damaging collets if you use them within their rated range. However, NEVER force a part into any collet. Forcing a collet to accept something BIGGER than their design range can damage them.

It is true that ER collets have a wider closing range but I don't find this extra range to be very practical. I end up using shims regardless because I don't like distorting the collets too much. 5C was developed to hold stock and ER was developed to hold nominal tools. That's how I use them 95% of the time.

 

[Bandit]

Wow, that’s a pretty good list @Susquatch. You often do not think about all of these things to do work with the lathe. At this time all I would add is a good 1 inch and perhaps a 2 inch micrometer depending on basic work you are doing, a good dial caliper would do instead, (depending on eye sight) many old timers used a spring divider and rule for measuring ( and a “looking” glass).
Some tools will even cross over to a mill.
Often I will use hss blanks for chuck steps, ( remember to pull them out before starting lathe!!.)

 

[TorontoBuilder]

What do you mean by an integral 5C collet chuck? My SM 10” has a 4C adapter to fit into the MT4 headstock spindle. I couldn’t find anything in a 5C.

I was under the impression that his lathe is a D1-3 mount. By integral I mean that the mounting studs are built into the chuck itself rather than requiring a back plate with the studs be fitted

 

[Susquatch]

Wow, that’s a pretty good list @Susquatch. You often do not think about all of these things to do work with the lathe. At this time all I would add is a good 1 inch and perhaps a 2 inch micrometer depending on basic work you are doing, a good dial caliper would do instead, (depending on eye sight) many old timers used a spring divider and rule for measuring ( and a “looking” glass).
Some tools will even cross over to a mill.

Great catch! I can't believe I forgot the calipers and micrometers. I have edited my list to include them.

And I agree that some tools do cross over to a mill.

 

[Susquatch]

My SM 10” has a 4C adapter to fit into the MT4 headstock spindle.

@TorontoBuilder answered your question. But I have a question about your question. What is a 4C adapter? I suspect a typo or a name for something I call by a different name. Can you post a photo?

5C is a common collet style often used on lathes. You can buy 5C chucks from many sources.

 

[mbond]

In that long list, the steady and follow rests intrigue me. How often do you actually use either?

 

[Susquatch]

In that long list, the steady and follow rests intrigue me. How often do you actually use either?

Not really that often. They should be used with long stock, but I often cheat the 3:1 stick out rule and sometimes I get away with it. But, technically, they should be used whenever the stick out has to exceed 3:1. The choice of which to use depends on the operation. Sometimes I even use both.

 

[mbond]

I have both, but have never used either.

most parts aren't truly slender because, whatever the cutting loads, they have to function after they are made.

and when making slender parts, usually there is an order of operations that avoids cutting on them when they are slender

so I am curious if anyone knows about cases where these are needed?

 

[Tomc938]

The QCTP is available on Amazon for $100 less.

Amazon.ca

I have an Amazon one (piston type) and seems to work just fine. A lot of these tools are all made in 1 or 2 factories and branded by whoever is selling them.

If you want brand name, now you know the cost of the silk-screen label.

 

[Susquatch]

I have both, but have never used either.

most parts aren't truly slender because, whatever the cutting loads, they have to function after they are made.

and when making slender parts, usually there is an order of operations that avoids cutting on them when they are slender

so I am curious if anyone knows about cases where these are needed?

I don't think you could make a long screw or threaded rod without one. Nor can you make a good constant size low OD bar. Tool pressure alone will bend the bar away from the cutter.

If your lathe has a small (or non existing) spindle bore, you are gunna need a steady.

 

[skippyelwell]

I was under the impression that his lathe is a D1-3 mount. By integral I mean that the mounting studs are built into the chuck itself rather than requiring a back plate with the studs be fitted

Correct.

 

[mbond]

I don't think you could make a long screw or threaded rod without one. Nor can you make a good constant size low OD bar. Tool pressure alone will bend the bar away from the cutter.

If your lathe has a small (or non existing) spindle bore, you are gunna need a steady.

your point about spindle bore is something I hadn't considered

some sort of lead screw - or anything else with sections that can't be reclampted because it will ruin the already machined parts is another important point

But of all of the items on your list, these one still stick out. for the same reason that even though I did, no one should but a set of tools

 

[Susquatch]

But of all of the items on your list, these one still stick out. for the same reason that even though I did, no one should but a set of tools

Ah, now I see our disconnect.

Usually (but not always), a steady and follow rest come with the lathe. They are on my list because they are useful accessories. But...... I would never recommend buying them. They either come with the lathe or you make them. I'll redo my list to make that more obvious.

 

[mbond]

probably I said it badly, but I think you agree - not that they aren't useful, but they aren't in the top 10 most useful items

 

[Susquatch]

probably I said it badly, but I think you agree - not that they aren't useful, but they aren't in the top 10 most useful items

Ya, they are not essential, but my list is a lot more than 10 items anyway....

Truth is that it's actually not an essentials list anyway. It's just what I use regularly enough to warrant being on a wish list.

I have a shit-ton of other stuff I didn't include. I just wanted to put something out there for new lathe users to think about.

I suppose I should have done a writeup too in order to qualify the items.

 

[mbond]

A top 10 sounds better than a top 964 ...

 

[Susquatch]

A top 10 sounds better than a top 964 ...

So true! Personally, I think an accessory/tooling list with discussion for lathes and for mills is something most new users could benefit from. When I get time, I'm gunna redo the list as a dialog in a new post and add another one for mills. I also have a used mill checklist for new buyers. I'll add a checklist for lathe buyers too. Nice little armchair projects for an old man.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

-I would put a QCTP pretty high on the list after using my son's lathe with a 4way tool post.
-My center drills set get a fair bit of use. However I use a solid center and a dab of grease likely more often than I should.
-I'm on my forth electronic digital caliper. I finally broke down and bought an expensive Mitutoyo. I always had to have a pack of batteries sitting on the case. During that time I have used one $20 Chinese dial calipers . That's what they cost 32 years ago.

 

[140mower]

My take on starting to tool up a small shop is to take stock of the machines you already have or are about to purchase and see if things like collets can be used on both the lathe and mill, eventually you will probably want to expand and get dedicated tools for each machine. But, that is pretty cost prohibitive for most of us.
In my little shop, the little mill has an mt3 taper, so I share it's tools with the tailstock of the 13"South Bend, and since the mill came with a set of er40 collets, it made sense to outfit the 10" South Bend with an er40 collet chuck, which I made myself. The chucks for the 10" are the same thread size as my dividing head, and it's tailstock tools fit into my 17" Delta Rockwell drill press. And the two shapers can share the hss with each other and the two lathes, as well as the mills fly cutters and boring head....
In my twisted little mind it makes it a little easier to buy stuff if I know it can be used on multiple machines. And keep an eye open for some of the member spotted deals, but if you spot a good one, don't piss around, go get it.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

On a lathe if you have a chuck and a tailstock center, you are in business. Mill tooling on the other hand si expensive. Even "cheap" Chinese is expensive.