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New Windows

TorontoBuilder said:
Oh man, you want to get me in trouble dont you?

Windows are an item that one does not do for energy efficiency or energy savings. Straight up, NRCan found that after reviewing thousands upon thousands of window retrofits alone, the claimed savings was never acheived.

If you do replace windows, or build new each home and window should be assessed individually based on orientation, width and height, external permanent shading, and location wind and noise exposure. Energy efficiency is a package deal. In most instances going above minimum code windows costs a lot with no return in savings of energy or fuel costs unless you design for solar gain, which requires mass.

In retrofits, many if not most times the window is inserted into existing opening, leading to no benefit. You need complete tear out and then foam in place for air sealing. It's funny to see people pay a ton for tight windows only to install them in leaky opening.

IF it we my home, and I was in city and wanted to retrofit I'd intall triple glazing to minimize the noise of humanity which sucks
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From what I've read and gleaned over the years about windows pretty much agrees with what you said above if I've understood you right. My take is that energy savings alone from triple pane windows isn't enough to pay for the cost increase . Sound reduction may be something you are willing to pay for. I recently had an installer telling me the virtues of triple pane, low e windows for my place... the reduced sound and summer heat from sunlight. For me on the farm, sound isn't a concern and when it's too hot and sunny I pull the blinds.
Different strokes for different folks.
 
Susquatch said:
Thanks for that @TorontoBuilder. You didn't disappoint.

Not that I trust NRCan - there were a few guys I respected, but most were total flakes. That said, your response is excellent.

All the guys here have helped me realize just how blessed I am to be able to open my windows 24/7 and hear song birds in the daytime and owls, nighthawks, frogs, coyotes, and crickets at night.
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It is not NRCan that I trust but rather the data they collected thru their grant and rebate programs and new housing programs that has a level of reliability. That and the data from the national research council's twin test house facility is unimpeachable.
 
Wind blasting by the windows was also a determining factor in going back to the rough opening. With an old house, it is good to return to the bones and check things out. My dad’s father was a carpenter back in the day of pride in the job. Do it right and do it once.
Dad and I are of the same mind when building whatever. When I had the roofing replaced, I specified that the old stuff comes off as nobody had seen the decking since when ever! Fortunately no rot was found, installed a metal roof which will pay itself in a few short years. This also removed about 8-9 tons of shingles off the roof! That was 3 layers off.
Pierre
 
I’ve replaced windows on two houses. I didn’t find much cost difference between the middle and top end windows. There is a big comfort difference though. There is no cold draft coming off the large triple pane living room window.
I also didn’t find any significant cost difference between custom and standard sizes. They’re all made locally and the cutting is automated so it’s just a matter of entering the dimensions.
With the exception of the largest windows I did the install myself.
 
I don’t know it seems they want you to have an airtight house, no chimney, and furnace plumbed to the outside that can plug up in winter and the carbon monoxide reports keep climbing which was unheard of years ago.
 
Tom O said:
I don’t know it seems they want you to have an airtight house, no chimney, and furnace plumbed to the outside that can plug up in winter and the carbon monoxide reports keep climbing which was unheard of years ago.
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Funny thing is, we never used to get reports of elevated radon gas in homes, but in many areas we had abnormally high incidences of cancer, especially lung cancer.

Similarly, we didn't used to get so many reports of carbon monoxide reporting either. But so many people would get "sick" in the winters and it was attributed to seasonal flus and such.

Then we started putting sensors in homes, and undertook extensive research.

The government had a huge issue when Mike Homes stated publicly that R2000 homes were bad, and that new homes were too tight. It took many years and many educated people to beat into Mike's brain why he was wrong, and now he is a convert.

I am not claiming that tight homes are perfect, in fact many tight homes are far worse than older leakier homes, because the builders made fundamental errors due to their lack of knowledge in building said homes. But I'd far prefer a properly built new tight home. But they are not easy to get right. And yes, sealed combustion appliances when installed poorly are prone to plugging with ice. It is sad really when manufacturer's engineers design a system to drain condensate but a slub in the field installs them incorrectly.

Not to say engineers are perfect by any means. When condensing furnaces first started wide spread introduction into the Canadian marketplace, Carrier had major major issues with furnaces shutting off and venter motors burning out. Engineers were scratching their heads going WTF we never had any of these issues in our extensive lab testing. Too bad these clowns never had seen an actual Canadian basement or furnace installation. Basement floors are sloped. An installer removing an old oil furnace yanked it out and stuck in the new gas furnace without a second thought. And rightly so, they'd been installing gas furnaces this way for decades.

The first year the Carrier SX furnace came out 50-75% of them had issues. Carrier dealers I know called the them sucks furnace.

The issue was that the drainage was poorly designed so it only worked if the furnace was within 1-2 degrees of level. Otherwise the fan housing and drainage box would fill with condensate, and the fan blades would splash in the condensate making noises that alarmed the owners. Eventually the furnace would fail from a pressure switch in the venter assembly, and or the venter motor would burn out.

This required the training of every carrier dealer installer and service mechanic across Canada, and much of the US. It led to design revisions on all future models to improve drainage of condensate.

Over the last 30 years of housing research and improvements in construction and materials, and resulting code requirement changes and increases in required energy efficiency levels and you create thousands of individual issues like this example. I'm privy to literally hundreds of discovered issues and the stories behind their discovery and eventual solution.

I can say, given the players involved in the field, the climate, the weather, the bureaucrats, the greed, the speed of the evolution of housing technologies, I'm pleasantly surprised our housing isn't total garbage
 
Susquatch said:
My experience is industrial/commercial. I've never replaced a home window in my life. I think much of this stuff ( triple /double, etc etc) is prolly highly dependent on the manufacturer.

Be interesting to get @TorontoBuilder's perspective on residential Replacement Windows.
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We replaced all the windows in our Mississauga home with Wilmar windows made in Winnipeg, great quality like new 25 years later. Present house 10 year old Roberge just off warranty all South facing seals have failed, complete garbage.
 
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