New to me Ammco 6" Metal shaper

[Susquatch]

I was following along with @TonyK AAMCO Shaper rebuild knowing I might have a chance to get one too. @gerritv was aware I was looking and generously put me in contact with a seller in Sarnia with an AAMCO 7"quite similar to Tony's.

I visited on Thursday and agreed to purchase it. Well, they claim it is 7 but who knows for sure till I get it. It could be a 6".

I just got a whole new level of interest in Tony's project......

@TonyK - You wouldn't happen to know what accessories might be available for it? The seller (previous owner's widow) said they would include anything that belongs with it. But I don't know what that all might be. We could all be staring at it and not even know it!

Very nice machine. Perfect for my foreseeable needs.

It is currently configured for a line shaft drive. I'll be converting that to a dedicated drive like yours.

 

[Dabbler]

I have just agreed to purchase an AAMCO 7".

wow!! congrats!

 

[TonyK]

I have just agreed to purchase an AAMCO 7". Well, they claim it is 7 but who knows for sure till I get it. It could a 6".

I just got a whole new level of interest in your project......

You wouldn't happen to know what accessories might be available for it? The seller (previous owner's widow) said they would include anything that belongs with it. But I don't know what that all might be. We could all be staring at it and not even know it!

Very nice machine. Perfect for my foreseeable needs.

It is currently configured for a line shaft drive. I'll be converting that to a dedicated drive like yours.

There is an Ammco manual on line that shows what the machine came with, A vise that mounts to the table and rotates, the table is scribed with the Zero line. A small shaft indexing centres and dividing head that is part of it. Currently shown on ebay for $850USD. Of course tool holders. Line shaft machines with Bottom crank screw, ( no miter gear and crank handle) as near I as I can figure out are dated about 1935 to 1940. If the table advance is cable rather than connecting rod then it is 1930 to 1935. All name plated 6". The 7" have miter gears for the Z Axis and are post 1940. Please post pictures of the machine and name plate would like to see what you have.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

Congrats, welcome to the shaper club. A shaper size is determined by size of a cube it can work. If your re machining an internal spline, a shaper specialty, how often are you going to need more than 7" ?

Shaper vise if it came with one for sure. As a Canuck fan, I have been watching too many Swedish hockey player interviews, I'm using "for sure". Shaper vises are squat, lower, and the stationary jaw is to the outside, opposite to a milling machine vise. They take lantern type tool holders. Maybe he had a internal holder for the clapper box. If not, it's project. For the rest, milling machine type stuff.

The most detailed how-tos were written at the turn of the last century. Before RongFu's RF-30 mill/drills,, they were a hobbyist's milling machine.

 

[Susquatch]

Please post pictures of the machine and name plate would like to see what you have.

I don't have name plate photos or detailed info yet Tony. It is still in the sellers basement. She is a widow selling her husband's machines with help from a nearby neighbour. He is making sure she gets fair prices. Both great people. I don't like negotiating with people in her situation. I gave her the ask. I bought a few tools too and actually gave her more than the ask cuz it was embarrassingly low. They are going to move everything to the garage and I'll pick it up after that.

Do you have a photo of the dividing head?

 

[gerritv]

Some more useful info I collected: Delta also sold these under their name.

 

[Susquatch]

Congrats, welcome to the shaper club. A shaper size is determined by size of a cubic it can work. If your re machining an internal spline, a shaper specialty, how often are you going to need more than 7" ?

That was kind of my thinking when I was looking for one. That plus a small footprint.

 

[TonyK]

Look on page 7 of the PDF manual supplied by gerrtv's post. There is also a low profile rotary table that was part of the tooling for the machine. Make sure to get it if is there. Trouble with someone moving stuff from a basement to the garage is, they just move stuff from anywhere to anywhere in the garage. What may have been laid out in the basement now who knows where it ended up. Make sure to look for the attachments for the machine, chances are if you don't take them they will end up in the scrap bin.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.

 

[gerritv]

Those 2 items were there, I know where they went. (not to me). The shop is quite well organized. Contents were advertised to 3 machining clubs.

 

[YotaBota]

Make sure to look for the attachments for the machine

I know that scenario, when I bought my lathe it was in the basement and the chucks and rests were in the shop on the other side of the yard. Mine was the only machine on the property with a D1-4 mount so made it easy.

 

[trevj]

I don't have name plate photos or detailed info yet Tony. It is still in the sellers basement. She is a widow selling her husband's machines with help from a nearby neighbour. He is making sure she gets fair prices. Both great people. I don't like negotiating with people in her situation. I gave her the ask. I bought a few tools too and actually gave her more than the ask cuz it was embarrassingly low. They are going to move everything to the garage and I'll pick it up after that.

Do you have a photo of the dividing head?

I have an Ammco 7 inch shaper.

The accessories are pretty distinctive looking, as they have a great jeebus bolt sticking out of the bottom to fasten them to the table. That bolt, or stud, as you may prefer, is not actually shown in the manufacturers pictures, but is a solid trigger to get your attention when a random seller posts one up for sale...

FWIW, I picked my dividing head up off of ebay some years ago, it was not identified by brand, was just listed as a set of small indexing centers. Seller offered to cut the mounting bolt off to save space in packaging, no less... I was fairly insistent that it stay! LOL! Can't recall the exact price, but it was under $100 US at that time. All mine is missing, is the index pin, and the tomy bar for locking down the headstock on the bed. Both simple parts to make.

The rotary table has direct indexing functions as well as degree markings, but is otherwise uncomplicated, no gear and worm to deal with. I was looking for one for a long while. Joe Bergamo at Plaza Tools in Vermont, had one, new in the wrapper, but he wanted rather more than he had sold my shaper to me, for it. Again with the bolt sticking out of the base, I returned from lunch one day, and looked on practicalmachinist, and a fella had listed, and sold already, a used condition one for like, $50... <sigh> Have not seen one listed since, though not really looking too hard...

If I REALLY got the hots for an RT for the shaper, like as not, I would dig through some of the small RT's that were offered up as plans in the various magazines (HSM, ME, and their ilk) and look for one that has the option to use settable limit stops, so you could do rounded parts without over-running your arc and notching the work. A couple tommy bar holes in the table side, or a handle that could bolt on to the tee slots, would give you finer control moving it, too.

 

[Susquatch]

I have an Ammco 7 inch shaper.

The accessories are pretty distinctive looking, as they have a great jeebus bolt sticking out of the bottom to fasten them to the table. That bolt, or stud, as you may prefer, is not actually shown in the manufacturers pictures, but is a solid trigger to get your attention when a random seller posts one up for sale...

FWIW, I picked my dividing head up off of ebay some years ago, it was not identified by brand, was just listed as a set of small indexing centers. Seller offered to cut the mounting bolt off to save space in packaging, no less... I was fairly insistent that it stay! LOL! Can't recall the exact price, but it was under $100 US at that time. All mine is missing, is the index pin, and the tomy bar for locking down the headstock on the bed. Both simple parts to make.

The rotary table has direct indexing functions as well as degree markings, but is otherwise uncomplicated, no gear and worm to deal with. I was looking for one for a long while. Joe Bergamo at Plaza Tools in Vermont, had one, new in the wrapper, but he wanted rather more than he had sold my shaper to me, for it. Again with the bolt sticking out of the base, I returned from lunch one day, and looked on practicalmachinist, and a fella had listed, and sold already, a used condition one for like, $50... <sigh> Have not seen one listed since, though not really looking too hard...

If I REALLY got the hots for an RT for the shaper, like as not, I would dig through some of the small RT's that were offered up as plans in the various magazines (HSM, ME, and their ilk) and look for one that has the option to use settable limit stops, so you could do rounded parts without over-running your arc and notching the work. A couple tommy bar holes in the table side, or a handle that could bolt on to the tee slots, would give you finer control moving it, too.

I think I'm gunna need photos.... I can't materialize what you describe Trev.

 

[Susquatch]

Those 2 items were there, I know where they went. (not to me). The shop is quite well organized. Contents were advertised to 3 machining clubs.

Any idea how badly they wanted them Gerrit? Just wondering if they might be happy getting their money back plus a reasonable profit?

Seems kinda wierd to have to do that when they should have stayed with the machine, but such is life.

 

[Susquatch]

Does anyone have photos of the low profile rotary table and dividing head? Maybe as @trevj says, I can make or buy something close enough.

 

[trevj]

I think I'm gunna need photos.... I can't materialize what you describe Trev.

You don't need photos... LOL! Download and look at the pictures of the accessories, in the better of the two files that were posted here earlier. What is not shown in the catalog, is tha tthere is a bolt/stud coming out the bottom, by which they are mounted to the table.

But... photos in this thread on PM https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/mystery-bench-center-type-tool.385580/

The Ammco accessories all mount to the table through the hole in the middle of it.

All (vise, index centers, rotary table) share the same distinct feature, a threaded stud that accepts a nut, to hold them in place.

Near as I know, Ammco/Delta was the only ones using this method, so it stands out.

 

[trevj]

Referring to the pictures in the link above, one idea that comes to mind, is to mount a worm gear to the indexing head, and bang together a suitable mounting for the worm, that slides into the tee slot behind the head, essentially making a two piece version of the South Bend centers head that is also shown in the pictures.

If you REALLY want to make your head spin a bit, carefully consider the idea of modifying George H Thomas' micro indexing system from his Versatile Dividing Head, to this... LOL! 60:1 worm set, feeding another 60:1 ratio... divisions up to 3600!

 

[MashingMetal]

@Susquatch Enjoy the ride!

 

[gerritv]

Any idea how badly they wanted them Gerrit? Just wondering if they might be happy getting their money back plus a reasonable profit?

Seems kinda wierd to have to do that when they should have stayed with the machine, but such is life.

they were in the tool chest, they didn't look like Aamco or Atlas when first spotted in the photos. I was just the delivery boy doing someone a favour bringing them east.

 

[140mower]

A homemade gear cutting attachment might be handy around the farm.......

 

[Susquatch]

Here are some photos of the indexer.





And the accessories info from Aamco.



You can also see the low profile rotary table - item 1 above.

I'm feeling a bit like I just bought a lathe but the guy before me bought the chucks and tailstock.