New "FREE" CAD program

[Loosenut]

There once was a guy (Artcraft) that got tired of being screwed over by Adobe (rentals etc.) so he wrote his own versions of all of it. By writing his own I mean he had an A.I. program do it, in one week since Oct. 9-ish. He also created a 2D version of Autocad and the best of all, a version of Fusion 3D called Solidcraft. All of these were created in a "clean room" isolated from everything so Adobe, Autodesk etc. should not be able to sue as long as their trademarks and logos are not used.
The link is below. I just downloaded it but haven't installed yet, I have watched a vid or two and apparently, it is very close to Fusion. They have been releasing new versions daily so far. These are basically beta tests and will not be fully complete for some time IE: month/s.

This video shows some of what it can do.

Link to get files.
https://solidcraftcad.com/

P.S. this is a download and runs on your computer not on the web. It will run in a browser if you want.

 

[PeterT]

Yes, AI (app) reverse engineering is hot in the tech news right now. Some of it is mindblowing in its early accomplishemnets & implications, others not so much. But if you consider where the puck is going.... interesting times ahead. Some of the big companies who mastered the fine art of financial strangleholds, content kidnapping & years of bloatware updates are in the crosshairs. But I feel like this frustration momentum has already started without AI. I'm just a novice on the photo front but I'm divorcing Adobe Photoshop/Premiere Elements which was a relatively inexpensive ($150) package by comparison. But they decided to go subscription model & I'm not playing that game. ON1 (low cost) is an alternative to Lightroom. Affinity by Canva (free) has 3 modules (Vector, Pixel, Layout) that competes with Illustrator, Photoshop etc. I'm just onboarding now so ask me in a couple months, but what I've seen so far is impressive for my purposes. I tried opensource GIMP + GMIC & Darktable... kinds of reminds me of my FreeCad dabblings - powerful but quirky, sometimes buggy, & a learning curve. On the video editing front, DaVinci Resolve is free. I'm told it compares/exceeds full Premiere. For sure kicks the stuffing out of Premiere Elements, so why would I pay? I'm suggesting the market rebellion started without AI but my hunch is its going to act as a catalyst.

In 3D CAD I really wonder if AI can crack the underlying graphics kernels. Thats the golden nugget. The app itself is more like a wrapper. Also not trivial, but the kernal is the secret sauce & probably where some of the cost is directed via royalties or whatever. We are just in the early innings. AI is doing some amazing things, but sometimes.....

 

[Mega arc 5040dd]

It has been probably at least a couple years since I have used fusion360 but isn't it already free for non commercial use? I am more of an autocad person myself. I have found it hard to change the way I draw things in order to use fusion very well. I am more of a draw every line type person as apposed to start with a shape and change and manipulate it. That said I would be interested in a free version of inventor mostly because I have just always wanted to play with it.

 

[Sqought]

I've heard mixed things about this guys software projects. The impression I get is he gets distracted with making a new software before he meaningfully fixes the issues with ones he's already released. I could be wrong though, he hasn't been at this very long so maybe it'll improve.

 

[PeterT]

as apposed to start with a shape and change and manipulate it.

This has come up in many of our posts. Its not really a good representation, or at least one needs to be more specific. For 3D apps like Fusion, Solidworks, Inventor, SolidEdge, Onshape, Alibre, FreeCad, Rhino.... what are sometimes called Nurbs, B-Rep, or mechanical type modelers - they all start with a sketch very similar to anything you would be familiar with in ACAD. And then that sketch is extruded into a solid body component by whatever means. Or the sketch removes some of an xisting body within the model. So you can build a very complex part by bulding on this process, adding & subtracting & mirroring & replicating.... on & on.

There is another facet of 3D modellers like Blender, Maya, 3ds Max, ZBrush... which are polygon mesh based, aka Sub-D, Digital Sculpting... I'm much less familiar with these but might be more like what you are mentioning 'start with a shape' & digitally manipulate the shape. These are very powerful in their own right & there is crossover functionality depending on the app. But mesh modellers are kind of in a different different camp. Not better or worse, more suited to different end results.

 

[Loosenut]

In 3D CAD I really wonder if AI can crack the underlying graphics kernels.

The program is in its early stages but looks good, has potential. Give it a few months.

a free version of inventor mostly because I have just always wanted to play with it.

That would be fantastic. I used Inventor for over 20 years until I lost access. I would love to get it back, it is a great program and not getting the recognition it should have. Better than Fusion and at least equal to Solidworks.

The impression I get is he gets distracted with making a new software before he meaningfully fixes the issues with ones he's already released

Apparently he is not working alone now.

 

[Doggggboy]

. We are just in the early innings. AI is doing some amazing things, but sometimes.....

Having spent my fair share of time walking down beaches on the way to places infinitely more interesting, there are a surprising number of people with either missing toes or extra toes. And this was before the joke sandals that had 6 or 7 toes on the sole.

 

[Mike R]

It begs the question though - if its this "easy" to start from scratch - how long to get to the functionality of something like FreeCAD that has CAD, CAM, FEA, and more? Its neat now but its of little real use to me.
The biggest issue with free / open source is everyone wants to do it their way so no project gets enough critical mass. That and because its free and run by consensus, the independant thinkers leave and go their own way.
Why can't this approach (AI coding) be applied to exisiting sw like FreeCAD to improve on it -use it to give it a GUI that is Fusion like if you will, and then fix the bugs? We must be getting really close to that point is my take. I'm really hoping someone takes FreeCAD and really finally makes an interface for it that I can get behind (i.e. shamelessly copy the Fusion feel as that is what I'm familiar with now).

 

[SomeGuy]

Yes, AI (app) reverse engineering is hot in the tech news right now. Some of it is mindblowing in its early accomplishemnets & implications, others not so much. But if you consider where the puck is going.... interesting times ahead. Some of the big companies who mastered the fine art of financial strangleholds, content kidnapping & years of bloatware updates are in the crosshairs. But I feel like this frustration momentum has already started without AI. I'm just a novice on the photo front but I'm divorcing Adobe Photoshop/Premierre Elements which was a relatively inexpensive ($150) package by comparison. But they decided to go subscription model & I'm not playing that game. ON1 (low cost) is an alternative too Lightroom. Affinity by Canva (free) has 3 modules (Vector, Pixel, Layout) that competes with Illustrator, Photoshop etc. I'm just onboarding now so ask me in a couple months, but what Ive seen so far is impressive for my purposes. I tried opensource GIMP + GMIC & Darktable... kinds of reminds me of my FreeCad dabblings - powerful but quirky, sometimes buggy, & learning curve. On the video editing front, DaVinci Resolve is free. I'm told it compares/exceeds full Premiere. For sure kicks the stuffing out of Premiere Elements, so why would I pay? I'm suggesting the market rebellion started without AI but my hunch is its going to act as a catalyst.

In 3D CAD I really wonder if AI can crack the underlying graphics kernels. Thats the golden nugget. The app itself is more like a wrapper. Also not trivial, but the kernal is the secret sauce & probably where some of the cost is directed via royalties or whatever. We are just in the early innings. AI is doing some amazing things, but sometimes.....
View attachment 88228

I've been using Resolve for years for my YouTube channel....it's insane the capability for the free version of it, I've never really hit a limit on it for things I wanted to do. Yes, the paid version (studio) has some neat automated features that makes the workflow faster/easier, but the free version doesn't prevent you from doing the same thing.

 

[whydontu]

I absolutely despise renting software.My older brother is a systems analyst /programmer, and back in the days of shareware he ripped a strip off me for using shareware but not buying it. The quote “why are you stealing money from programmers? You do realize thats how I pay my rent?” So I always buy software, but I’m not paying for it as a subscription, controlled by the software vendor. I even send Wikipedia and Archive money when they ask, they are providing a tool that I use every day. Why would I pay Microsoft $10 a month forever to allow me to use their software? And have to buy a new computer when they implement some new feature that’s not compatible with my perfectly functional computers?

I did try the Solidcraft stuff, the spreadsheet, PDF editor, word processor, and PowerPoint clone. Decent, clearly a beta release but shows promise. I can’t say anything about the photo editing or CAD stuff, I haven’t tried them. I use a 2-d CAD program that was written for Windows 95, it does what I want and I know it’s features like the back of my hand.

 

[trackwhack]

Ok, first impressions. Its Awesome already.

The geometry kernel they are using is called truck - a Rust based open source kernel.

Looking at this, if it progresses well, we may completely drop our own efforts of devving a geometry kernel and maybe not explore doing a CAD at all.

Still open is how they will eventually deal with complex Boolean math. But it really is very very good and I dont see anyone really needing Fusion for CAD anymore.

Lets wait to see if they can dev the CAM side of things as thats listed as coming soon.

 

[trackwhack]

This is a direct Rip off of Fusion though and Im not sure of the legal implications as it surely has to be violating copyright and design patents.

Cant wait for the Solidworks Ripoff. Damn, I'm picking my jaws off the floor.

@DavidR8 , you must try this. This is it!

 

[jcdammeyer]

I absolutely despise renting software.My older brother is a systems analyst /programmer, and back in the days of shareware he ripped a strip off me for using shareware but not buying it. The quote “why are you stealing money from programmers? You do realize thats how I pay my rent?” So I always buy software, but I’m not paying for it as a subscription, controlled by the software vendor. I even send Wikipedia and Archive money when they ask, they are providing a tool that I use every day. Why would I pay Microsoft $10 a month forever to allow me to use their software? And have to buy a new computer when they implement some new feature that’s not compatible with my perfectly functional computers?

I did try the Solidcraft stuff, the spreadsheet, PDF editor, word processor, and PowerPoint clone. Decent, clearly a beta release but shows promise. I can’t say anything about the photo editing or CAD stuff, I haven’t tried them. I use a 2-d CAD program that was written for Windows 95, it does what I want and I know it’s features like the back of my hand.

These systems are often subscription hidden under the disguise of annual updates to enhance your experience.

You know it's a subscription when next year's version "saves as" a file not readable by last year's version.

Yes. Your old version works until the underlying OS changes or you have replace the burnt motherboard.
But then you are SOL.

 

[Loosenut]

This is a direct Rip off of Fusion though and Im not sure of the legal implications as it surely has to be violating copyright and design patents

As quoted this was developed in a "clean room" meaning the developer was isolated from the original program code, given specs on what was required and left to develop it AKA: reverse engineering and legal. As long as Artcraft doesn't infringe on trademarks logos etc. a lawsuit should not get very far. Doesn't mean it won't happen but since the programs are in the wild now and the developer probably doesn't have enough in value to sue for why bother, the best they could get is stopping further development..........maybe..

Don't forget these programs are in their infancy and a lot of improvements are yet to come, give them a few months.

 

[trackwhack]

As quoted this was developed in a "clean room" meaning the developer was isolated from the original program code, given specs on what was required and left to develop it AKA: reverse engineering and legal. As long as Artcraft doesn't infringe on trademarks logos etc. a lawsuit should not get very far. Doesn't mean it won't happen but since the programs are in the wild now and the developer probably doesn't have enough in value to sue for why bother, the best they could get is stopping further development..........maybe..

Don't forget these programs are in their infancy and a lot of improvements are yet to come, give them a few months.

Yes I get it completely, but a design patent differs from a technical patent. The infringement here is that the entire UI is a direct rip off. The underlying guts of the program is completely different because Autodesk has their own proprietary kernel - HSM works and SolidCraft uses truck.
The challenge will be on the GUI design being a like for like copy. Adobe also will likely approach it this way

The fun is gonna start when AI companies start putting lawyers behind the open source folks backing them against the likes of Autodesk and Adobe.

There was a time when Sun Microsystems was the boss, and they just died. I see most software firms dying soon, very soon.

 

[PeterT]

It will be interesting. But assuming BigBoyCAD just curls up in the fetal position & watches their golden goose get cannibalized is also a bit naive. They are sitting on the kernal source code, years of evolution & refinement. That is a significant head start IF they choose to engage, logically with the same AI tools to improve. I suspect some in particular have grown fat, technically not capable & will get restructued. Others, maybe not. It could also be change in this indusry is actually more complicated than writing from scratch especially with big name clients and zillions of cad models & associated cnc parts that absolutely have to function properly. A modern CAD app is a whole lot more than making a hobby item. That YouTube video is very interesting, but 5 yards into a marathon. But that doesnt mean hobbyists cant benefit by this if the re-engineered app do the job.

On another CAD forum I used to frequent one of the guys seemed to have intimate knowledge of kernal code but never really divulged who he worked for. This was years back so probably dated. But it was the usual FreeCad can do anything XYZ CAD could do. So he would upload a relatively simple block model & say 'do a slightly more complex fillet on these edges' one of many fillet operations that were drop down menu selctions on XYZ. FC would freeze or barf & that would be the end of discussion. It wasnt fingerpointing or posturing, he was demonstrating one of the many limitations of the kernal. The kernal code was just not set up or optimized or whatever to solve this particular kind of issue. Which explains mixed satisfaction results by different app users. Being 'free' & some limitations or workarounds goes a long way to acceptance for one type of user, but basically unnaceptable to those who live & die make their living from the tools capabilities & functionality. Is SW fired everyone associated with 3DE swamp & hired a teenager with AI to just fix what should be the easiest login/download/update hot mess they created, you could have a fully functioning Maker version for $50 (on sale for $25) & no need for an AI re-engineered app. Anyway, I hope competition, however it plays out, ultimately benefits consumers.

some kernals by app

 

[gerritv]

There is, IMO, zero chance that commercial clients will touch the work alikes for a very long time. And that is where Adobe and Autdoesk get their main cash flow from. The work alikes will OTHO appeal very strongly to small shops and hobbyists who can tolerate a lack of some features or depth and are frozen out of 'the big boys' due to costs.
Fusion is now routinely offering licences at 25% or greater off. For many shops on the edge, this will work. It still won't work for the average hobby person of course.
For me, if it doesn't have good CAM there is no way I will move to the Fusion workalike.
LightCraft is for me also not ready, the colour rendering is horrible and it doesn't support camera or lens profiles. Since they are rolling their own lens profiles for some bizarre reason (there is a FOSS one already in use), it is unlikely that my older Pentax glass and K100D/K5 will be supported. Thankfully there are other FOSS options for LightRoom replacements that do work well.

Give it a year and see what the staying power is. Right now every YT personality is in a fever dream of retribution, not thinking too clearly about reality.

 

[whydontu]

It’s also a sales strategy. The (generic) hobbyist who uses a CAD package to design something for their $3000 CNC machine isn't going to spend $2000 on a pro-level CAD package, so there’s no business case for developing a cheapo version.

The other aspect in business applications is very simple. “Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM.” From an employees’ perspective, taking a risk on a new CAD package of unknown capability and spending time and money on a steep learning curve and/or incompatibility with legacy designs isn’t worth losing the respect of management or losing your job if the new software is a bust.