Need Adapter German Bottles to CGA Regulators

[tinkering]

I have German made propane and oxygen bottles; small ones from a Perkeo kit.
The tanks are 20 inches tall ballpark.
They have the valves intact.
The best I can research for German tanks is:
+ oxygen valve fitting is DIN 477 No. 9
+ propane valve is DIN 477 No.2

The best I can make out for the Craftsman regulators I have is:
+ oxygen CGA 540
+ propane CGA 110 or CGA 180

The best I can see for the oxygen side is I need a DIN 477 No. 9 to CGA 540 adaptor. Amazon and Ebay searches failed first time around. Where, if at all can I get such a monster?

I am not that concerned about adapting to the German propane valve because a standard 20lb BBQ tank fits.

If I can adapt to the German oxygen bottle I could save on buying one. I would still have to have it certified for $70.

If the price of the adapter/s and the recert don't compete with buying a new bottle, I will go that way.

Where is the cheapest bottle in Calgary or online?

 

[Janger]

Well oxypro or kms seem similar. KMS is $130 in their flyer for a 20 cu ft . Plus fill. I would think an adapter like that plus recertification is at least that much. Try calling oxypro the one we like is the smaller outlet on 42nd ave WEsT of Blackfoot. I want a O2 bottle too but 110 cu ft - that's $300. If you find a better soln please post.

 

[tinkering]

I called 5 gas outlets in Calgary:
Some gave me approximate tank dimensions, some gave me volume, so it's a wee bit convoluted. There should be enough information to help make the decision on which store to use. I'm sick at home today so I figured I would post all of my findings

1. Praxair
- 3 and 4 foot high tanks (CF?) are rental only $110/yr
- 2 foot tank (20 CF?), $300 buy outright

2. OxyPro (Oxygen Products Ltd. 42 Ave SE. 403 243 2601)
- 125 CF (4 1/2 foot) $295 filled, $40 refill
- 80 CF $260 filled, $34 refill
- 50 CF (3 foot) $235 filled, $30 refill

3. OxyPro (Oxygen Products Calgary Ltd. 61 Ave SE. 403 279 5055)
- 244 CF $795 filled, $70 refill
- 122 CF $495 filled, $60 refill
- 80 CF $300 filled, $50 refill

It's strange that the two OxyPro stores have differing prices, but the 42nd Ave SE store is cheaper.

4. KMS
- 250 CF (5 foot) $410 plus $52 to fill
- 110 CF $300 plus $33 to fill
- 80 CF $280 plus $26 to fill
- 55 CF $240 plus $25 to fill
- 20 CF $150 plus $17 to fill

KMS has DEC 2016 CHRISTMAS Sale 15th to 17th
The sale prices roughly equate to a free initial fill.
*It looks like KMS sells Air Liquide gasses

5. Air Liquide
They do all rentals except for the 'ALBEE' tank,
(3 foot) $298 filled $44 refill
rental prices:
- up to 3 foot $0.49/day, $65/yr
- over 3 foot $0.52/day, $99/yr

- #44 tank (5 foot) $72 to fill
- #22 (to yer chest) $52 to fill
- #16 (3 foot) $51 to fill
- #9 $50 to fill

If a guy doesn't have $300 or $500 to spare and the job isn't tooo big, rental could get 'im by until the funds come home

 

[tinkering]

Well oxypro or kms seem similar. KMS is $130 in their flyer for a 20 cu ft . Plus fill. I would think an adapter like that plus recertification is at least that much. Try calling oxypro the one we like is the smaller outlet on 42nd ave WEsT of Blackfoot. I want a O2 bottle too but 110 cu ft - that's $300. If you find a better soln please post.

It looks like OxyPro on 42nd has a 125CF for $295. That is a bit better than KMS 110CF for $300.
Thanks

 

[Janger]

Nice work. I was mad about the prices when I looked into it last. The story hasn't improved. I checked prices in LA just to see. It's about 1/2 what it costs here. I don't think you can import them though all that easily.

 

[tinkering]

Nice work. I was mad about the prices when I looked into it last. The story hasn't improved. I checked prices in LA just to see. It's about 1/2 what it costs here. I don't think you can import them though all that easily.

The medical oxy tanks on Amazon.ca are cheaper; too bad they have different valves.
The welder oxy tanks on Amazon.com are way more than Oxypro.

I've spent enough energy looking online now. I need to decide which size is best, and get down there to pick it up. I am leaning towards either the 20CF at KMS for $150 or the 125CF at OxyPro 42nd for $295. The 125CF is 5 times the gas for twice the price.

 

[Janger]

I agree the $300 tanks seem like the best option. I have two - one for argon and another for C25. They do come up used but if you go that way the tanks must belong to the seller and not a lease. People get burned by this and no one will refill them.

 

[tinkering]

I agree the $300 tanks seem like the best option. I have two - one for argon and another for C25. They do come up used but if you go that way the tanks must belong to the seller and not a lease. People get burned by this and no one will refill them.

I get that now, if you don't own the bottle you are limited to where you can refill it. I'm going to go with the $295er.
Amazon.ca has a cutting torch attachment I think I would like too. I wonder if it will fit my old Craftsman handle? https://www.amazon.ca/Forney-87104-...4666&sr=8-7&keywords=cutting+torch+attachment

 

[tinkering]

As for adapters to go from German to NA threads (DIN 477 No. 9 to CGA 540 etc.) I came up with nothing. I have abandoned the idea.
I might cut and paste those German bottles into a project or something

 

[Dabbler]

I bought my full sized bottles from Air Liquide a VERY long time ago. When it came for a refill, they needed re-certification which was more money than new, so I went with OxyPro on Barlow and 61 ave. They exchanged my tanks for me, and refilled for a reasonable price... It was 6 years ago, so I don't remember the numbers, but it seemed okay at the time. It takes me about 8 years to use up a fill...

 

[PeterT]

I'm just curious, are you comparing propane & oxygen cylinders only, or also other gases? I found this AirLiquide online catalog & they show different cylinders depending on contents. http://airliquide.shelfpublication.com/english/0000076/section1/13

I keep thinking about my 'one-day' TIG welder so I found your rent vs. own comparisons very interesting. But like you say apples & oranges size/capacity wise. For example if annual rental for a big boy was $100/year vs. purchase cost was $300, the payout is 3 years not considering gas. Do (owned) cylinders come up for mandatory re-certification after 10 years or whatever?

 

[Dabbler]

I think the interval is 7 years for O2 and flammable gasses, and 10 years for welding nonflammable, but the rules change every time I buy more gas.

 

[Janger]

If you trade in your cylinders at oxy pro you're on the unlimited program - they take whatever back and give you a new used one. I even traded up sizes once with more cash but still less than buying a new bigger one.

 

[tinkering]

Who in Calgary has the best prices on tips and fittings etc., RE 2 pc propane cutting tip, propane heating/ brazing tips?

 

[tinkering]

I'm just curious, are you comparing propane & oxygen cylinders only, or also other gases? I found this AirLiquide online catalog & they show different cylinders depending on contents. http://airliquide.shelfpublication.com/english/0000076/section1/13

I keep thinking about my 'one-day' TIG welder so I found your rent vs. own comparisons very interesting. But like you say apples & oranges size/capacity wise. For example if annual rental for a big boy was $100/year vs. purchase cost was $300, the payout is 3 years not considering gas. Do (owned) cylinders come up for mandatory re-certification after 10 years or whatever?

Janger has the bottom line here, I think. You don't have to ever worry about re-certification again because they give you a different tank each time you refill.

 

[Dabbler]

There is a 'hidden cost' to renting. One of my acquaintances rented for 15 years, and then tried for a refill. At that time, the bottles were out-of-date. He was charged big$$$ because he never refilled and the bottles were out of cert. (This is all third hand and he was bellyaching, but there seems to be some grain of truth to it) I *hope* that this is no longer the practice. Better to rent a smaller bottle and rotate more often, just sayin'.

 

[PeterT]

I've been lurking this subject on model engineering forums where they do a lot of silver soldering, boiler making, annealing, (minor) heat treating...stuff like that. I'm intrigued by Sievert which many favor even when they have access to other torch equipment & gasses. They are made in Sweden, been around forever. There is a USA distributer, nothing in Canada - go figure. I downloaded a product catalog that shows all the specs & attachments (link below). For my particular needs I think it would be a pretty good fit because in many applications the oxy (hotter flame) can act against controlling the temp on the fiddly stuff. Most home shops apparently use a standard BBQ (or larger if it makes sense) & air is free. Not sure what kind of work you were doing but thought I'd mention.

http://www.sievert.se/
http://www.sievert.se/products/pro-86/
http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=16965
http://www.cupalloys.co.uk/sievert-heating-equipment/
link to catalog
www.sievert.se/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Roofing-Catalog-2014_USA.pdf

 

[tinkering]

I bought my full sized bottles from Air Liquide a VERY long time ago. When it came for a refill, they needed re-certification which was more money than new, so I went with OxyPro on Barlow and 61 ave. They exchanged my tanks for me, and refilled for a reasonable price... It was 6 years ago, so I don't remember the numbers, but it seemed okay at the time. It takes me about 8 years to use up a fill...

OxyPro on 42nd has better prices on Oxygen than OxyPro on 61st, as my post above shows. It's good though that OxyPro on 61st exchanged your bottles when Air Liquide (the original seller) would not.

So far I have enjoyed the friendly patient service I have received from Rob at OxyPro 42nd.

 

[tinkering]

There is a 'hidden cost' to renting. One of my acquaintances rented for 15 years, and then tried for a refill. At that time, the bottles were out-of-date. He was charged big$$$ because he never refilled and the bottles were out of cert. (This is all third hand and he was bellyaching, but there seems to be some grain of truth to it) I *hope* that this is no longer the practice. Better to rent a smaller bottle and rotate more often, just sayin'.

That sounds about standard from what I have been hearing. Renting just doesn't make any sense to me unless it is for a day or a month or something.
I agree with your idea of buying a smaller bottle if you don't use as much gas, so you are 'timed' into getting it refilled before the re-cert date rolls by. The re-cert charge is usually around $70.00.

 

[tinkering]

I agree the $300 tanks seem like the best option. I have two - one for argon and another for C25. They do come up used but if you go that way the tanks must belong to the seller and not a lease. People get burned by this and no one will refill them.

I am going to go with either the 122 cuft ($295 filled) or the 80 cuft ($260 filled). The 122 CF is 4 ft high; the 8o is 3 ft high. I don't have a lot of room in my shop right now so I was thinking of storing it horizontally under the bench. The 80 CF at 3 ft will take up less room under there. 80 CF is probably big enough for me right now.


Assuming both the 122 CF and the 80 CF are close to the same diameter:
$295: 122 CF at 4 ft is 30 CF/ft = $75.00/ft = $225/3 ft
$260: 80 CF at 3 ft is 27 CF/ft = $87.00/ft = $260/ 3 ft
Basically, that extra foot of tank containing 40 CF more only costs ya $35.00... maybe I'll just try harder to find the room for the 122 CF tank Frugality wins out

Apparently you go through more oxygen when using propane rather than acetylene? If that's the case, I can use the extra. Either way, it could last me the rest of my life