My first mill is a First mill

[PaulL]

Seems like a good time to move the thread here instead of continuing in the Member-Spotted Deals thread.
I figure I'll keep logging my progress here.

This morning's job was getting the head squared away to the table. That meant taking one of my indicator stands apart, turning a shaft to fit both my collets and the indicator stand hardware, and another shaft to hold the test indicator.

The test indicator holder is particularly artisanal. That was the lumpy end of a scrap, cross-drilled and reamed to 4mm to match the indicator shaft, a quick hack-saw cut and then a clamp to hold the indicator firm. And by clamp, I mean a little pipe cutter I had lying around (red in the previous picture) - somehow my collection of nuts and bolts appears to have migrated to the cottage. Time to track down a good assorted tray of them.

Once that was done the actual tramming was pretty quick.
Next stop, T-nuts.

 

[PaulL]

And this afternoon I bought a cheap vise and machinist clamp set, and got the vice trammed in:

Which was followed by...First Chips!
It's a little bit embarrassing on a machine this size pulling out a 1/4" end mill, but until I figure out my 3/8" collet, that's the biggest I have.

And now for a down-side I found on the mill. The R8 indexing pin in the spindle is missing. I can feel the orifice where it once went, but I can't put in the 3/8" R8 collet I found for 14$ because it spins as I tighten the draw bar.
I feel another yak shave in front of me.
Paul

 

[DavidR8]

I don't have an R8 spindle but the pins seem to get sheared off/lost/etc on a regular basis and I haven't read anything that says the pin is 100% necessary.

 

[YotaBota]

@PaulL - Did you get the manual with the mill? The pin shouldn't to difficult to replace.
Did you try giving the 3/8 collet a light tap when tightening to see if it would seat?

 

[Tecnico]

Quote @PaulL :

"My first mill is a First mill"

Hey! That was my line, LOL! I guess smart minds think alike.

OK, so that’s a play on words. It is my first mill but it’s also a First LC1 – ½ TM (Long Chang, out of Taiwan).

Tecnico's First Mill

And now for a down-side I found on the mill. The R8 indexing pin in the spindle is missing. I can feel the orifice where it once went, but I can't put in the 3/8" R8 collet I found for 14$ because it spins as I tighten the draw bar.
I feel another yak shave in front of me.

The R8 key you're missing is an M6x1 x 8 dog point grub screw, that's one of the subtle changes LC made to the machine compared to a BP. It's locked in place by a flat point grub screw of M6 x 1 x ~6mm (I wrote the length on a scrap of paper that I'd have to hunt for out in the shop right now). The outer grub screw should be there still but if not let me know and I'll dig deeper.

FYI, I wound up using a bit of Loctite 222 (removable for fasteners up to 1/4") to keep the inner screw from slipping when I locked it with the outer. I also had to go through my R8 shanks and adjust the depth of the inner screw to fit the one that had the most shallow groove. The collet holder groove could have been cut a little further down its shank to avoid the slope of the cut.

My source of the grub screws: Grainger URL. I could mail you a couple if they're not on the shelf in Victoria.

What's a yak shave? EDIT: I Googled and understand.....

What did you pick up for a vise?

D

 

[YYCHM]

Pull your draw bar and make sure the 3/8 collet threads on without binding. There are two versions of R8 draw bars out there. One metric and the other imperial.

 

[PaulL]

@PaulL - Did you get the manual with the mill? The pin shouldn't to difficult to replace.
Did you try giving the 3/8 collet a light tap when tightening to see if it would seat?

No manual. And First don't seem to ave any online. But the Sharp manual for a similar clone is pretty clear, and seems to match this machine. I need one of those pin wrenches to access the pin - I figure I'll make one up in the morning. Then I can turn a pin if I need to.
I feel like I'm coming up to critical mass.

 

[YYCHM]

I feel like I'm coming up to critical mass.

Hey, don't panic.

 

[Tecnico]

No manual. And First don't seem to ave any online. But the Sharp manual for a similar clone is pretty clear, and seems to match this machine.

What is your model/year? I have hard copies of the manual & illustrated parts list that covers 1987 vintage LC-1/2VS if that's helpful.

Some images of the machines shown in the Sharp manuals are labelled First so I think it's a safe guess that both are Long Chang.

D

 

[PaulL]

Hey, don't panic.

The opposite critical mass - the one where I can make all the parts I need!

 

[PaulL]

What is your model/year? I have hard copies of the manual & illustrated parts list that covers 1987 vintage LC-1/2VS if that's helpful.

Some images of the machines shown in the Sharp manuals are labelled First so I think it's a safe guess that both are Long Chang.

D

That explains a lot. The machine is that kind of vintage - the plate is missing? But to date everything I've looked up in the Sharp manual has been true of the First.

 

[PaulL]

So partial success: I've pulled the bottom of the quill off and gotten access to the pin and its setscrew. Parts 1424 and 1137. The pin screw is sheared, and the "special" screw that acts like a lock washer is competely absent. And those parts I can get shipped to me for the low, low price of 65$ USD. The shipping is ridiculous. I don't see a canadian supplier, so I'm guessing I'm going find some plain set screws and machine them into the right shapes. The only part I can't do right now is the hex wrench socket, so it seems fine to sacrifice a couple of standard grub screws for this.

 

[YotaBota]

Phone the guy you bought it from, maybe his shop has parts that you need and will help out.
It's worth a shot.

 

[Susquatch]

Seems like a good time to move the thread here instead of continuing in the Member-Spotted Deals thread.
I figure I'll keep logging my progress here.

This morning's job was getting the head squared away to the table. That meant taking one of my indicator stands apart, turning a shaft to fit both my collets and the indicator stand hardware, and another shaft to hold the test indicator.
View attachment 24962
The test indicator holder is particularly artisanal. That was the lumpy end of a scrap, cross-drilled and reamed to 4mm to match the indicator shaft, a quick hack-saw cut and then a clamp to hold the indicator firm. And by clamp, I mean a little pipe cutter I had lying around (red in the previous picture) - somehow my collection of nuts and bolts appears to have migrated to the cottage. Time to track down a good assorted tray of them.
View attachment 24963
Once that was done the actual tramming was pretty quick.
Next stop, T-nuts.

Did you tram Nod too?

 

[Susquatch]

The R8 indexing pin in the spindle is missing. I can feel the orifice where it once went, but I can't put in the 3/8" R8 collet I found for 14$ because it spins as I tighten the draw bar.

I had this problem too. Even worse, the previous owner let it spin and scored a few collets. Thankfully, the spindle was harder than the collets and undamaged.

As others have posted but easy to not fully understand, there are often two grub screws stacked one on top of the otther. One with a turned down nose to fit the collet groove, and one to lock the first grub screw in place.

On a Bridgeport (and my Hartford) you have to remove the spindle nose first. Then you can access the screws. But sometimes that can be difficult. I further shortened the short end of an Allen wrench to get it in there. A bit later, I ground the spindle a bit for much easier access.

You can solve the broken grub screw issue easily. I bought a box of 50 as an offering to the God of Replacement Parts. Ever since they arrived, I have not broken even one.

But seriously, I believe that the lock pin is not there to stop the collet spinning when you work, it's there to stop it from spinning when you tighten the collet. If you tighten the collet with a bit of gronk, it won't spin and you won't break the lock pin.

Edit - I see you already solved many of these problems. I started reading from the top of your thread instead of the bottom. My apologies.

I loved both kinds of critical mass. In fact, I should have said that my box of 50 screws is just one box of standard screws from which I made a few of both of the ones I need. Ya, critical mass...... What a wonderful point in a machinists life......

 

[PaulL]

Did you tram Nod too?

If by nod you mean front-to-back head tilt (hmm, I guess that's a nod!), yes. I didn't check front to back of the vice jaws though - thanks for pointing it out. I'm sure it would have bitten me soon enough

 

[PaulL]

Edit - I see you already solved many of these problems. I started reading from the top of your thread instead of the bottom. My apologies.

Top-reading or bottom-reading, it's still all useful info and grist for the mill.

This morning I'll try to find a few grub screws at the local home shop, and failing that will turn some with a slot until a box of 50 shows up ;-) And then make a little fixture for the lathe to turn the end off the grub.

 

[Tecnico]

That explains a lot. The machine is that kind of vintage - the plate is missing? But to date everything I've looked up in the Sharp manual has been true of the First.

The plate on mine is on the back side of the ram mount, April 1987.

The offer of dog point grub screws is still open, even after using one on the machine & a couple on my dolly I still have 97 left and I can't imaging going through all of them! I didn't have to mod an Allen wrench, just had to wiggle it a bit.

Critical mass is GREAT!

D

 

[mickeyf]

I find 90% of the metric screws etc I need at Fastener Force on Hillside. Don't need a commercial account, like at Fastenal, and they are happy to sell small quantities, although I think they may have recently implemented a minimum sale - $10, maybe? So by a few extra of something else you may need.

 

[PaulL]

I find 90% of the metric screws etc I need at Fastener Force on Hillside. Don't need a commercial account, like at Fastenal, and they are happy to sell small quantities, although I think they may have recently implemented a minimum sale - $10, maybe? So by a few extra of something else you may need.

Fastenal annoy me beyond compare. I certainly spend enough to match their low end commercial accounts, but they refuse to set up an account for me.
I'll try Fastener Force, who I really should have remembered are a different business.