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Monarch 10EE $4500 Langley BC !!
- Thread starter whydontu
- Start date
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BaitMaster
Super User
Someone needs to buy that. Probably not that bad on the electrical problems. A lathe that size is a super simple machine electrically. Dc motor drives can be had for a few hundred bucks.
DC drives don't work easily on these dc motor 10ee's. This is well documented. I own one and researched it a ton. This one should be approached as a candidate for a 3ph motor swap, or better, a servo swap.
That being said, 4500 is a good deal for a nice looking 10ee. Just be aware of what it may need.
That being said x2, if someone buys this, contact me. I may sell my machines complete electrical system and do the 3ph swap myself. I converted my MG to single phase, as documented on the forum.
That being said, 4500 is a good deal for a nice looking 10ee. Just be aware of what it may need.
That being said x2, if someone buys this, contact me. I may sell my machines complete electrical system and do the 3ph swap myself. I converted my MG to single phase, as documented on the forum.
Proxule
Ultra Member
Is that a jealous tone I hear ?Testicle festival .......must be an Alberta thing
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
It looks purdy. But it will need 2000$+ to add the missing parts, and then more to convert it. For someone with the means, you could end up with a purdy lathe for between 6000 to 9000$.
A comment on the DC drive. Keith Rucker has been working with an electrical Engineer and a motor drive company for over a year, and has yet to duplicate the performance of the original circuit in tubes. I really do hope he cracks this nut. I wait with baited breath!
There is a board out there that is a direct swap. But it delivers less horsepower and a much slower top end than the real thing.
Using a VFD and 7HP+ motor, you can match the performance of the 10ee's drive system. Some reports that the smoothness of the finish isn't as good. But that might be nit picking.
A comment on the DC drive. Keith Rucker has been working with an electrical Engineer and a motor drive company for over a year, and has yet to duplicate the performance of the original circuit in tubes. I really do hope he cracks this nut. I wait with baited breath!
There is a board out there that is a direct swap. But it delivers less horsepower and a much slower top end than the real thing.
Using a VFD and 7HP+ motor, you can match the performance of the 10ee's drive system. Some reports that the smoothness of the finish isn't as good. But that might be nit picking.
BaitMaster
Super User
I didn’t know the history/context of these lathes and I guess the tube drivers etc….. in my mind (as an electrician) I’m thinking shoot, one DC drive from automation direct and 4 wires later and she’s gonna be bucking!
Wrong.
Learn something new every day I guess.
The 3ph motor and drive swap seems in my mind simple as well, but that’s how a guy gets himself into trouble.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
@BaitMaster There is a trick that the Monarch motors used, as these motors are not permanent magnet motors, but field wound DC motors. To increase speed above something like 2000 RPM, the field current has to drop in a nonlinear fashion with respect to RPM. Ironically the power consumption and torque go UP when you do this.
Some very smart guys have worked on this and failed to reach the goal before giving up or living with a compromise.
Somebody some day with some very clever programming of a (programmable) constant current power supply will one day crack this nut.
The requirements of a lathe in general, besides what Dabbler wrote, are different than a lot of DC motor implementations. So far there are no plug and play solutions for a DC motor drive that suit both the motor, and the application in this case. That is why the guys like Keith Rucker are using multiple modules and complex wiring, and still not succeeding to do what Monarch/Reliance did in the 30's and 40's with the MG setup. The best solutions are the factory setup, converting the MG to single phase, or replacing all the electrical and going 3 phase + vfd.
I converted mine to single phase while keeping the MG setup, but a big part of me wants to go 3ph/vfd. I'll cross that bridge when I get further into the restoration.
I converted mine to single phase while keeping the MG setup, but a big part of me wants to go 3ph/vfd. I'll cross that bridge when I get further into the restoration.
The tube drives are a different story. This is not one of them. This is an early 10ee, commonly called a round dial 10ee. This one came with a motor generator setup. A 3ph motor drives a dc generator, which then drives the DC spindle motor. The later tube (actually thyristors) drives could be powered by single phase and were pretty much problem free. Most of the problems came from people not knowing how to diagnose them and then trying solid state dc drives.....
There's two schools of thought on the 3ph motor swap, and the Monarch factory have done both in their retrofits. Swap in a 5hp 3ph motor with VFD, and keep the back gear, 2spd gearbox, or swap to a 10hp 3ph motor with vfd and drive the spindle directly, no gearbox. If i were to do it, I'd likely go the 10hp route and ditch the gearbox for simplicity sake. If Monarch themselves did it, good enough for me.
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Sarcasm? The 10ee drives, OEM, were one the top performing drives ever made, despite their age. It will deliver pretty much full HP from 10rpm to 2500. That's the round dial, later square dials up to 4000 (although those are tube drives, not as simple as the WL). All done with a only a 2 speed back gear, so as to have no gears on the spindle.
On the round dial like that it should be a Ward Leonard drive. Their only disadvantage is they are noisy, but I've yet to see a replacement proposed that will deliver its performance. If it hasn't been hacked to bits and you can live with the noise, its the best drive you're going to get.
Mine came with the 2 speed back gear, but the drive was stripped out. I adapted the gearbox to the front of a 5HP motor so I'd have the high and low, and power it through a VFD. While it will do pretty much everything I want it to, it does not come close to the original performance.
My concern would be the paint/lipstick/repair. Can't tell what it was like and its also been worked on. Once someone's been into one, did they know what they were doing or have they created more problems?. There is also the missing/disassembly crossfeed and compound. It does have the thread stop attachment which is nice - automatically disengages threading letting you got at speed to a shoulder
EDIT. first computer didn't have FB access, now that I've read the ad, a tinkered with original drive and other parts missing? Strong pass imo and he is smoking on the price.
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Dabbler
ersatz engineer
I didn't read the ad before either. Those who don't have the expertise (an a LOT of of it is required) stay away. For those with the experience, they won't touch it unless they wanted a strong challenge to their skills. I'm in the middle group. I know enough, but no expert. I lust after a 10ee or a H HLV, but I really wouldn't take this lathe if he gave it to me.
So if someone gets it, you've been warned.
So if someone gets it, you've been warned.
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
If the lathe was closer I certainly would take a look. I would swap the power for 7.5hp or even 10hp motor and VFD. I already have such motors. I have no idea where the cross slide parts may come from. D1-3 is not an issue as my current lathe uses just that - so I would have 2nd lathe with same system.