Metal working - dry / lubricants / coatings / cooling mist

[Ironman]

I use anchor Lube and Rigid cutting oil.
But my opinion of WD40 is that it is useless. I then read that the chemical has a great affinity for steel and will cling to it in preference to other metals.
I have found that it will prevent that buildup on the cutting edge when machining or sawing aluminum. It actually works for that.
I recently had to cut a large amount of aluminum, and did not have a coarse enough blade on the bandsaw. WD40 kept the saw cutting and without it the build up would jam the blade in the cut.
For tapping and stuff I find Fluid Film to be a very good lubricant.

 

[Ironman]

Do not use automotive cutting oil.!

You have a conviction, do you have a reason?

 

[CWret]

Good question - i had just assumed there was a good reason not to use automotive oil

 

[Susquatch]

You have a conviction, do you have a reason?

I assumed he meant Automotive Oil, not automotive cutting oil. Although there are companies (Eg CRC) That sell cutting oil through their auto division, there is nothing specifically automotive about them. As far as I know, there are no really specific automotive cutting oils. If there were, I wouldn't be afraid to use them.

However, I would not use automotive engine oil as a cutting fluid. Too many additives for other purposes in there to be comfortable about using it. And I think that's what he meant. Can't wait to hear what he says!

 

[CWret]

Stellrammer had replied to my following quote from Post #1 -

“The lubes I’m now using are shown in the photo below. The red can is 30 wt way oil. The blue can is equal parts Rapid Tap/Tap Magic/80W90 gear oil (mix rational: Rapid Tap is very popular; Tap Magic is sooooo very thick and tacky; and I’ve got lots of the gear oil).”

 

[DPittman]

I use anchor Lube and Rigid cutting oil.
But my opinion of WD40 is that it is useless. I then read that the chemical has a great affinity for steel and will cling to it in preference to other metals.
I have found that it will prevent that buildup on the cutting edge when machining or sawing aluminum. It actually works for that.
I recently had to cut a large amount of aluminum, and did not have a coarse enough blade on the bandsaw. WD40 kept the saw cutting and without it the build up would jam the blade in the cut.
For tapping and stuff I find Fluid Film to be a very good lubricant.

IMO. WD-40 is actually pretty good on aluminum but not real good for much else. It's supposed to be water displacing in the short term but I've seen reports that in the long term it seemed to make rusting on steel worse!

 

[Stellrammer]

You have a conviction, do you have a reason?

Automotive oil and cutting oils are engineered for different purposes. Cutting oils have a different stable viscosity and have additives like sulphur,chlorine and or long chain fatty acids. Automotive oils are designed to keep metal parts from abrasion, their composition is not enhanced to absorb heat and carry it out with a metal chip. The use of automotive oils can lead to chip adhesion as it cannot withstand the pressure as it doesn’t form an adequate continual micro barrier. The lack of specific additives causes heat buildup at the edge and it hits its flash point sooner, it smokes readily and vaporizes quicker and at lower temps than cutting fluids.
There is a reason for zinc additives used in flat tappet engine break ins, the same goes for additives in cutting oils to be able to withstand extreme pressure and keep a tap, or drill or die from galling and pushing metal rather than shearing it
Putting 10W30 on a high heat ,high speed application like turning and milling it provides little better lubrication than dry and will not reduce and carry away heat, but will vaporize and smoke, a cutting oil fares better but vaporizes as well, thusly an emulsifiable oil and water for cooling and some lubrication.
If it “works for me” then carry on , the customer may not always be right, it’s also not my job to prove them wrong.

 

[CWret]

Thanks very much for that detailed explanation - as i said previously, i ditched the use of gear oil.

 

[Ironman]

The use of automotive oils can lead to chip adhesion as it cannot withstand the pressure

Thanks for that info. The smoke OMG, that's bad enough. I love my carbide inserts and only use cutting lube for a final light pass, other than that it's dry cutting.

 

[Stellrammer]

Thanks for that info. The smoke OMG, that's bad enough. I love my carbide inserts and only use cutting lube for a final light pass, other than that it's dry cutting.

I can’t stand much in the way of air contaminants, while I like Acculube I can’t bear the vapors it gives off , chokes me up. I can’t smoke anything and things with toluene and such like as in Slip-ease graphite paint can make me sit down, lots of breathing protection for me, I’m a snowflake.

 

[CWret]

I’m a lot smarter now - i try to avoid fumes and dust as much as possible now that i made it to retirement. Guess I’d have looked after myself better if I’d ever thought I’d live this long. I got my quota of nasty stuff a long time ago. I know what it’s like to have coal dust ground into your neck so deep that you need a week off before you can think about wearing at white shirt. I’ve known the pain of a powder headache far too often. I raced a dirt bike. There’s a reason they call it a DIRT bike.
So as i said -I’m smarter now, I use PPE and try my best to avoid nasty stuff.

 

[Ironman]

I got my quota of nasty stuff a long time ago. I know what it’s like to have coal dust ground into your neck so deep that you need a week off before you can think about wearing at white shirt. I’ve known the pain of a powder headache far too often.

Alright, one of good guys, I spent 34 years underground

 

[StevSmar]

I was having a lot of trouble finding Isopropyl Alcohol, which I eventually found at a Farming Supply store in Winnipeg. (Horizon Livestock and Poultry supply)

 

[StevSmar]

I was using Methyl Hydrate in the workshop until my wife (who’s a nurse) said that it’s toxic.

This was around the time that there were warnings and recalls of hand sanitizers which used Methanol instead of Isopropol Alcohol.
(This research article Here reviewed this)

So I switched to Isopropyl Alcohol, which while still being toxic is apparently less toxic than Methyl Hydrate.

I’d be concerned about using Methyl Hydrate in a cutting fluid where it could become a mist and be ingested.

 

[Mcgyver]

Where did this trend of using alcohols for cutting fluid come from? It really surprises me. I'm not getting why you guys are using IPA or Methyl Hydrate? Is really flammable stuff and there are high temperatures present in maching, let alone that there are occasionally sparks. IPA for example auto ignites at 750F and a blue chip is 630F...and we all know they can get hotter than blue to say nothing of a spark risk. And, you do not have to have a blue chip to have temps at the cutting edge that high or higher. Gasoline with an auto ignite at 1200F might be safer! (no, I'm most definitely not recommend that either lol)

I'm not the net nanny type, but man, that seems waaaaay out there and I wouldn't anyone or the shop going up in flames.

What am I missing?

 

[Stellrammer]

Where did this trend of using alcohols for cutting fluid come from? It really surprises me. I'm not getting why you guys are using IPA or Methyl Hydrate? Is really flammable stuff and there are high temperatures present in maching, let alone that there are occasionally sparks. IPA for example auto ignites at 750F and a blue chip is 630F...and we all know they can get hotter than blue to say nothing of a spark risk. And, you do not have to have a blue chip to have temps at the cutting that high or higher. Gasoline with an auto ignite at 1200F might be safer! (no, I'm most definitely not recommend that either lol)

I'm not the net nanny type, but man, that seems waaaaay out there and I wouldn't anyone or the shop going up in flames.

What am I missing?

I have not been in a shop that was using it, I’ve seen and used varsol mixed with cutting oil, and have used it but I still think it’s sketchy. I draw the line at alcohol, I think it is a step too far in risk vs. benefit. In my older years I’m more prone to say , not my zoo, not my monkeys.

 

[StevSmar]

Where did this trend of using alcohols for cutting fluid come from?

My post was intended to suggest that if you have a choice between isopropyl alcohol and methyl hydrate, it’s probably safer to use isopropyl alcohol.

Personally, I would not use any type of alcohol as a cutting fluid unless it was mixed with other components to reduce its flammability.
(Having said that though, I suspect a lot of cutting fluids are flammable?).

 

[Rauce]

Where did this trend of using alcohols for cutting fluid come from?

It’s nothing new but Stefan Gotteswinter has a few videos where he mentions it’s his preferred cutting fluid for aluminum.

It’s only for aluminum, doesn’t do anything for ferrous materials.

Datron CNC machines have a coolant system designed for it. Also common for diamond turning aluminum.

 

[Stellrammer]

It’s nothing new but Stefan Gotteswinter has a few videos where he mentions it’s his preferred cutting fluid for aluminum.

It’s only for aluminum, doesn’t do anything for ferrous materials.

Datron CNC machines have a coolant system designed for it. Also common for diamond turning aluminum.

I see, an enclosed system and vented, makes sense for high velocity micro tools, sterile and doesn’t require cleaning of the parts. Quite effective if well managed,I noted they don’t recommend steel fixturing in case a cutting tool hits it and sparks.