Looking for milling machine purchase help/advice

[Downwindtracker2]

I'll stand by what I said. Repairing machinery to me is hot worms , no big deal. But trying to use a machine that is +/- 10 thou is. That is what you can get with a lot of used Bridgeports. I replaced the feed rods and nuts on mine. It's genuine Rong Fu and so I was able to get parts through Thomas Skinner, the importer. That was a while back. It's now a +/- one thou machine. Not ideal but I can live with that. To get that out would require scraping.

BTW, the Canadian made Excello is a better machine than the Bridgeport.

 

[Susquatch]

I'll stand by what I said. Repairing machinery to me is hot worms , no big deal. But trying to use a machine that is +/- 10 thou is. That is what you can get with a lot of used Bridgeports.

I'd rather buy a used Bridgeport that needs work than a smaller new machine. You would rather buy a new smaller machine. That's just personal preference. But did you really have to say that anyone who buys a used Bridgeport is "full of it"?

BTW, the Canadian made Excello is a better machine than the Bridgeport.

There is always something bigger or better. A lot of our members have Excellos and Firsts. The mill I have now isnt really a Bridgeport either. It's a Hartford.

I think many of us just refer to all that class of machines as Bridgeports - perhaps because so many parts are interchangeable or perhaps because the basic function is the same.

There is a place for everyone here on this forum. We try not to put others down because of their choice of machine. We all live with what we can afford, have room for, and what we prefer.

As for new or used, my first lathe was well used. When it came time to get a bigger one, I decided to buy new. It's a really nice machine that I really like. But to get what I wanted, it cost me a small fortune. In hindsight, I wish I had spent less on a better used machine so I had more cash left for tooling. My last 4 big machine purchases have all been used. Some needed more work than others but all within my skill set. So, with the hindsight of my own experiences, my personal preference is to buy used with my eyes wide open.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

I've often joked I pay a dime on the dollar for the machine but end up paying a quarter on the dollar in parts . I draw the line at scrapping in. It doesn't always work. I only paid $50 more for my auction pressure washer then I would have had I bought new.

 

[J.mac]

Thanks everyone for all the helpful comments and experiences, it's really been a huge help. Admittedly, I might be more uncertain now in my decision on what to do then when I satarted . But, it's all been extremely helpful.

I must say, this has probably been the best forum experience I think I've ever had in the last 30 years I've been on the on the internet (I started building websites way back in 96'), so I've really seen the best and worst of it. I thank you all for the great learning opportunity and feedback.

 

[slow-poke]

It's difficult being patient waiting for a gem of a machine to come along , but they do eventually come along. Just be ready to act when they do.

 

[MrWhoopee]

Only thing that annoys me is that machines in Canada never seem to have DRO options like the PM ones. I definitely want a DRO. ANd while I can certainly get one aftermarket, I don't know enough to find the good ones amoungst the junk on Aliexpress or Amazon.
It w

Just for reference, I bought the cheapest most economical 2-axis DRO I could find for my lathe on Aliexpress. It was less than $200 in 2018. Early this year one of the scales failed, the first problem I've had of any sort. Cost me $70 for a replacement.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1921109355389893/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

https://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing vertical/

Just spotted this tonight. For limited space, I'd think this would be head and shoulder above something from Busy Bee, or other importer. If it's in decent condition of course.

 

[slow-poke]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1921109355389893/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

View attachment 66973

https://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing vertical/

Just spotted this tonight. For limited space, I'd think this would be head and shoulder above something from Busy Bee, or other importer. If it's in decent condition of course.

I'm curious about your comment head and shoulders above BB.

I have an older made in Taiwan BB knee mill.
- It's definitely larger and heavier 1200lbs vs. 750lbs. I'm not sure what that's worth?
- motor is twice the size 1.5HP vs. 3/4HP

I'm guessing the fit and finish of the Clausing is better.

They are asking 2x what I paid, so I guess that says something.

What would make it heads and shoulders better?

 

[CWret]

It has a number stuck on the front (429). Only one picture??Also - no other accessories. Does that indicate it came from an auction from someone that is trying to scoop a profit? Auction stuff has an unknown past or sometimes is auctioned to dump a problem. But - lots of good equipment gets to auction (crap shoot).
The vise is certainly no prize winner. I agree with @slow-poke ‘s evaluation.

 

[YotaBota]

This is the new version of @slow-poke's mill (not the same brand) and the cost for a new one. Then you need a vise and tooling, probably add another $2k ish to the cost to get started.

Buy Knee Mill Vertical Craftex Cx Series at Busy Bee Tools

This heavy duty knee mill has the power and space to make quick and accurate work of just about any machining job you can throw at it.

www.busybeetools.com

There are gems that show up, you have to be in the right place at the right time cash in hand.

 

[jcdammeyer]

A little late to the party here. I had a ceiling height issue so many larger used ones wouldn't have fit. I didn't want a round column because of the issues with getting it lined up after changing the distance to the table which a knee does really well. And although this version didn't have the horizontal mill feature it did have the ability to rotate the X axis so I figured I could always add that. So the House of Tools machine found it's way into my shop.

Specifications in the PDF. I have yet to use the flood coolant. First thing I added was a Shumatec DRO that used standard micrometer type scales which were cheap.

Now it's totally CNC'd although the DRO still comes in handy as the Z is on the quill while the CNC is on the knee.

I'm not sure mine takes any more space than the mill @David has. We should do some measurements one of these days just to see how much space each takes up. My CNC cabinet sits beside the mill where David's CNC stuff is in the cabinet under the mill. I think we're pretty close to the same Spindle to Table distance and we both have R8 spindles.

 

[David]

The overall footprint of our mills is likely similar. The difference is that mine weighs less and because it's a bench mill I have it on a stand with a cabinet and four drawers.

 

[jcdammeyer]

The overall footprint of our mills is likely similar. The difference is that mine weighs less and because it's a bench mill I have it on a stand with a cabinet and four drawers.

I forget. Does the table extend past the cabinet when at either end of it's max move distance? And the screen and keyboard? They should probably be part of the footprint space too?

At the moment I think your mill will do CNC way better than mine since it has the ball screws. It will take a lot of work to bring mine up to yours for capabilities.

 

[David]

I forget. Does the table extend past the cabinet when at either end of it's max move distance? And the screen and keyboard? They should probably be part of the footprint space too?

At the moment I think your mill will do CNC way better than mine since it has the ball screws. It will take a lot of work to bring mine up to yours for capabilities.

Yes, on both sides. Screen and keyboard are on top of the mobile tool chest to the side.
It seems pretty capable, the first project got within a couple of thou to designed dimensions so that's alright in my books.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

I'm curious about your comment head and shoulders above BB.

I have an older made in Taiwan BB knee mill.
- It's definitely larger and heavier 1200lbs vs. 750lbs. I'm not sure what that's worth?
- motor is twice the size 1.5HP vs. 3/4HP

I'm guessing the fit and finish of the Clausing is better.

They are asking 2x what I paid, so I guess that says something.

What would make it heads and shoulders better?

I stand corrected. When I made the "head and shoulders" comment I had in my mind the PRC benchtop imports that are mill like in looks only. I'd forgot about the taiwanse kneemills such as yours and others. Which I do believe are all inspired by that Clausing above and improved upon too with heavier castings, and an r8 (vs mt2/bs) spindle taper. So, yes, I retract my comment if it came across as degrading to that class of machine. That was not my intention. This is what I had in my mind when I made that comment. https://www.busybeetools.com/products/mill-drill-6in-x21in-cx-series-1-1-4-hp-csa?request=collection That style and the RF round column bench tops (now I'm going to piss of those guys.... ).

Fit and finish of the old Clausing could potentially be better than new taiwan, but as with all things of that age, what it was when new, isn't necessarily what it is now. It could be a gem, or totally clapped out.

 

[Susquatch]

That style and the RF round column bench tops (now I'm going to piss of those guys.... ).

Ya, it's like dogs and trucks. Never talk bad about a guys dog or truck or shop machine.....

 

[Dan Dubeau]

Dogs I can see, but trucks and machines are fair game for brand loyalty warfare.....

Just kidding, I'm pretty impartial when it comes to brands, and don't get hung up on all the sports team ra ra, bullshit.

What I said above about machines though, doesn't touch on the machinists impact on the evaluation. Over the years I've seen some incredible work churned out on what, on paper, would be classed as inferior machines. So we can sit here debating the merits of machine design forever, but it still comes down to the patience, and skill of the person turning the handles, no matter how heavy the machine may be or it's country of origin. For a great many of guys the rf45 is a great machine, and perfectly suited to the needs of their shop.

 

[SightlessSeer]

So far I've found that I buy machines very irrationally. I want the new machine to excite me. While many of the Asian import lathes, mills, etc. would serve my needs just fine, they don't have that look or character or whatever it is that makes me willing to haul 1100 lbs from Montreal back to Ottawa behind an 07 Honda Civic (hot take, Bridgeports and their clones don't really do it for me either). I'm more drawn to older machines especially with nice curves to their castings, and fewer electronics.

At the end of the day, you can try to optimize for the most rigid machine, or a feature set, or the best spec sheet, or lbs/$, or any number of other things, but imo if you're not a business that's probably not really important. The best machine is the one that you have and if you're creative enough you can do pretty much anything on any machine (see this video on turning a new overarm for a horizontal mill using a Myford if you're going to nerd snipe me about capacity limitations).

I think it's best to buy a machine that you can fall in love with and worry a little bit less about min/maxing everything in your life. At the end of the day this is a hobby for me, so it has to be fun. I like making things with my machines, but the machines are also an end in and of themselves. I like diving into their history and making/tracking down interesting or obscure accessories for them (recently I've been piecing together a setup for spiral milling on my Hardinge mill. I might never need it, but it's a super cool piece of kit). If machines are only a means to an end for you then you are probably just fine buying an rf-45 clone or Busy Bee bench or knee mill or a machine from Precision Mathews and not worrying too much about it.

 

[Dabbler]

I have an older made in Taiwan BB knee mill.

Depends on if the reference is to current BB machines or older ones. I had one of the Taiwanese BB mills - a B048. Great machine. I wouldn't take a current BB machine if were brand new, and free. They are disgusting.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

We can talk all we want of the various advantages of mill models, but the simple truth is you can rate them by their work envelope . Mine is a 8x32 (9x32 actually ) . This will govern the use of your very precious floor space. Such is my life in a 22'x22' double garage that has to be a fully equipped cabinetry shop, machine shop, welding shop, gunsmithing and reloading shop.