Lathe pecking order 8-12"

[slow-poke]

Some members here have worked on a multitude of lathes over their lifetime, others like me have had little exposure so don't know how one machine compares to another.

What I hope this thread will accomplish is to create a list with best quality/use-ability on top and worst on the bottom just for perspectiv,e, it won't be perfect and opinions will obviously vary because machine A might be better than machine B for some operations and vice versa for others.

Obviously an abused and worn out great machine may be less useful than a new lower quality machine so for the sake of this list let's assume the machine is in good condition. Comments should be brief so not to flow over to the next line so the list is concise.

So feel free to copy the latest list, add to the list, fill in the blanks, correct and reorder the existing list if your convinced it needs a tweak.

A linkable XL spreadsheet would be better format so if someone knows how to do that feel free.

Manufacturer, Model, Size, Prod. year, Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard-Modern, LD, 12x30, 1960-1980?

BB-Craftex, CX706, 10x22, 2020-2024, Power crossfeed
King, KC1022ML, 10x22, 2020-2024, No power crossfeed

 

[Mcgyver]

When ever someone asks what lathe they should get, I suspect they end up more confused at the end of the thread than the beginning ..... so many opinions and everyone's got one.

Mine is .....

The tens imo are (as in 1-10, in no particular order, and by no means exhaustive)

Schaublin/Habegger
DSG
Monarch
Pacemaker
American
Holbrook
Rivett
Okuma
Hardinge
Smart Brown
Boley
Levin

I have always been able to find a 10 either in great condition or that I can recondition ..... ergo, why settle for a 9?

 

[Martin w]

Dean Smith and Grace
K-Martin
Lodge and Shipley
Colchester

 

[Susquatch]

What I hope this thread will accomplish is to create a list with best quality/use-ability on top and worst on the bottom just for perspectiv,e, it won't be perfect and opinions will obviously vary because machine A might be better than machine B for some operations and vice versa for others.

What you are trying to accomplish isn't obvious to me @slow-poke. Is this a brand comparison, or a size comparison, or a features comparison, or a vintage comparison, or?

I've seen and used a lot of lathes in my short life, but I don't have nearly the exposure that @Mcgyver has. I do note that stuff like King, BBee, Modern, Grizzly, etc didn't even make his list. Yet, I absolutely love my Grizzly.

 

[Dabbler]

I agree with @Mcgyver list, but I would add LeBlond (13" up) just after Hardinge. The slant bed gives them high accuracy and long life.

 

[Upnorth]

Of all the lathes I used my favorite was a Graziano. I can't remember the exact model but I think it was a Sag 16. These days I make do with an old Harrison M300. Decent but not as nice as the Graziano.

 

[trlvn]

Looking at it another way, isn't the "best" lathe the one that will do the job you want to do, when you want to do it?

It is simplistic but certain lathes will be better suited to the work you want to do than others. At the extreme, a 28" swing lathe isn't going to be great for making watch parts. And if you want to work on rock mining equipment, you need a machine with appropriate capacity.

Then there are the real world constraints like budget, space or even availability. Etc...

FWIW,

Craig

 

[slow-poke]

What you are trying to accomplish isn't obvious to me @slow-poke. Is this a brand comparison, or a size comparison, or a features comparison, or a vintage comparison, or?

I've seen and used a lot of lathes in my short life, but I don't have nearly the exposure that @Mcgyver has. I do note that stuff like King, BBee, Modern, Grizzly, etc didn't even make his list. Yet, I absolutely love my Grizzly.

"What I hope this thread will accomplish is to create a list with best quality/use-ability on top and worst on the bottom"

Objective is to form a list with best on top, worst on bottom.
1) Copy the list
2) Add a lathe(s) to the list, placing the added lathe where you think it best belongs.
3) Resubmit the updated list.

Here is the original list:

Manufacturer, Model, Size, Prod. year, Comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard-Modern, LD, 12x30, 1960-1980?

BB-Craftex, CX706, 10x22, 2020-2024, Power crossfeed
King, KC1022ML, 10x22, 2020-2024, No power crossfeed

 

[Susquatch]

"What I hope this thread will accomplish is to create a list with best quality/use-ability on top and worst on the bottom"

Objective is to form a list with best on top, worst on bottom.
1) Copy the list
2) Add a lathe(s) to the list, placing the added lathe where you think it best belongs.
3) Resubmit the updated list.

I guess I deserved that.......

Perhaps it would have been better if I had asked what the objective of your objective was...... But now I'm afraid to.....

 

[slow-poke]

Objective, for newbies searching for a good used lathe a one page prioritized (quality and usability) summary of 10-12" lathes that can help guide newbies like me. I have used only one of the lathes on the list below and have no clue how the other 19 rank, from the comments sounds like the Hardinge might be towards the top of the list and the King near the bottom. So when shopping might be wise to purchase the Hardinge over the King. Hopefully the more experienced members can tweak the list so it makes sense.
Link to the spreadsheet, feel free to add, improve etc and then provide a link to the updated version for others to contribute. It won't be perfect but it will be better than nothing.
Link--> https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/b6sd...ey=7oegsmf0gjiyed374vwlg3bnp&st=7e1z3s4s&dl=0

 

[carrdo]

TOS Trencin (now made in Slovakia, formerly Czechoslovakia) are beautifully made lathes but they are big and heavy duty industrial lathes. Also, condition is very, very important.

 

[140mower]

Probably going to get my butt set on fire for this, but in the size range listed, I think that the South Bend, Standard Modern, and Atlas all have their place on the list. If not for their ultimate precision, the available parts and accessories make them a serious contender in the homeshop, where bad things happen to good tools, especially in the early stages of learning.
As much as a Porsche would have been an awesome first vehicle, considering my skills early on and the treatment that first car got, I am glad it was a Toyota Corolla. For what it's worth, nobody should ever do to a car what I subjected that poor thing to, but it established a life long love for Toyota's.

 

[YotaBota]

I think brand is one of the last things a newby needs to look for. Something easy to get parts for, won't do to much damage when you crash it, notice I said when and not if, and won't break the bank. Spending a zillion bucks on a Schaublin before you can even spell or pronounce Schaublin makes no sense. After the comfort level goes up and the newbie has more of a clue then start looking for what is wanted/needed.

A couple of considerations;

1 - $$$$$, how much can you comfortably spend?

2 - how much room do you have and where? I don't see a Pacemaker going down stairs and making a sharp right turn at the bottom.

3 - as a newbie, features wanted/needed aren't known to you, unless there has been a lot of research done before hand.

My thought would be to just buy something inexpensive and get started, then after getting some knowledge and time behind wheel there will be a better understanding of what is needed/wanted to continue on in the hobby.

As much as a Porsche would have been an awesome first vehicle,

100% agree, don't buy the Porsche until you know how to drive a clutch and control the slide.

 

[Susquatch]

Probably going to get my butt set on fire for this, but in the size range listed, I think that the South Bend, Standard Modern, and Atlas all have their place on the list.

Not by me you won't! I think that's an EXCELLENT point.

It's nice to think a new user would appreciate the best machines, but if they are not making mistakes, they are not learning. Best to make mistakes and learn on a budget machine than a tool room lathe.

Heck, I'd go as far as to say a new user should avoid the top of the line machines!

Unless they can afford to buy one and put it away and use something else until they have learned how to use it properly.

Ya, that will likely land me in the burning butt camp right beside you.

Edit - after posting I see a few others posted while I was writing and agree too. No butt fires yet.......

 

[slow-poke]

I need help getting the lathes on the list in some sort of sensible order, anyone want to take a crack at it?

I have a CX706 in all likelihood it's near the bottom of the list, I have no idea how it compares with a say a SouthBend? Some of you might have used both and would know.

Need to add SouthBend and SM to the list but where, towards the bottom, middle I have no idea? I do know the SM I have seen is a lot better than my CX706.

I think brand is one of the last things a newby needs to look for. Something easy to get parts for, won't do to much damage when you crash it, notice I said when and not if, and won't break the bank. Spending a zillion bucks on a Schaublin before you can even spell or pronounce Schaublin makes no sense. After the comfort level goes up and the newbie has more of a clue then start looking for what is wanted/needed.

A couple of considerations;

1 - $$$$$, how much can you comfortably spend?

2 - how much room do you have and where? I don't see a Pacemaker going down stairs and making a sharp right turn at the bottom.

3 - as a newbie, features wanted/needed aren't known to you, unless there has been a lot of research done before hand.

My thought would be to just buy something inexpensive and get started, then after getting some knowledge and time behind wheel there will be a better understanding of what is needed/wanted to continue on in the hobby.


100% agree, don't buy the Porsche until you know how to drive a clutch and control the slide.

This is not about cost, space etc. this is simply what's good, better, best and whats not so good. From my perspective the most important criteria is overall quality, the second is usability in my mind a lathe with power crossfeed and a tailstock lock lever is more user friendly than a lathe without these features.

So when something pops up on Kijiji the newbie can look at the list and think:

Schaublin, likely a great lathe but probably beyond my budget
Standard Modern, hmmm this might be a great lathe to grow into, I'm going to explore this one.
Southbend, hmmm good reputation, kinda old and old school, might be worth looking at
King model 00, well no power crossfeed, questionable quality, I think I will keep looking

Get the idea?

 

[Martin w]

Lathes are a lot like people. If you had to move your brother in law once every six months use an Atlas. If you had to pull your tractor out of the mud, use your Lodge and Shipley, if you needed to send a rocket to the moon use your Schaublin If you want to date a super model and fit right in use your Dean Smith and Grace. If you had to run a marathon everyday then use a K Martin or Monarch or Pacemaker or Hardinge . if you want to play with dolls a Craftex or King would be good. Lol. Just kidding!

 

[Mcgyver]

Schaublin, likely a great lathe but probably beyond my budget

Yes, rather a great lathe . Unless you are spending really big dollars, the most common models you are see for sale are not a screw cutting lathe so not the best first lathe imo. Unbelievably awesome second lathe.

Standard Modern, hmmm this might be a great lathe to grow into,

I push back on that. SM are solid well made engine lathe that is very a capable machine. When they were for sale a few years ago I spent 3 days in the plant with the owner and was very impressed at just how well made they are. Didn't make my top list though which were sort of the next level up (my list was either tool room lathes or ones with the weight to swing ratios of a different class than SM)

School boards across the country put them in front a million students (ok, I made up the number, but they were extensively used in the schools). There is nothing you need to grow into to deserve, like and use one. Grade 9 students did just fine with them and so would you. imo a beginner is better of with a solid quality lathe like the SM. Its just easier to get good results with a good lathe. They are however a bit bigger than some of the "carry down the stairs lathes".

As for parts, I don't really get that concern. Unless you are busting castings, bearings, belts seals etc are 99.9% of parts ever needed and are common commercial items. Other parts are easy to make.

Where the beginner does have to be wary is excessive wear. It to can be fixed (called reconditioning and is done by scraping) but unless you're going in eyes wide open, its likely not a practical undertaking for a beginner (although I believe you can do about anything another biped can do if you want to badly enough). Its usually easy to spot, and even you get stuck with one (I did my very first lathe) you can still make great stuff will you're looking around for another.

You're going to have a hard time getting any sort consensus on relative placing on the list. I assume you've seen Tony's site? The list part has already been done. Although not ranked, I can't say that I've ever violently disagreed with any of his comments, which should be enough to generally classify them in your mind.... and it covers a lot of lathes!

lathes.co.uk

 

[slow-poke]

Yes, rather a great lathe . Unless you are spending really big dollars, the most common models you are see for sale are not a screw cutting lathe so not the best first lathe imo. Unbelievably awesome second lathe.



I push back on that. SM are solid well made engine lathe that is very a capable machine. When they were for sale a few years ago I spent 3 days in the plant with the owner and was very impressed at just how well made they are. Didn't make my top list though which were sort of the next level up (my list was either tool room lathes or ones with the weight to swing ratios of a different class than SM)

School boards across the country put them in front a million students (ok, I made up the number, but they were extensively used in the schools). There is nothing you need to grow into to deserve, like and use one. Grade 9 students did just fine with them and so would you. imo a beginner is better of with a solid quality lathe like the SM. Its just easier to get good results with a good lathe. They are however a bit bigger than some of the "carry down the stairs lathes".

As for parts, I don't really get that concern. Unless you are busting castings, bearings, belts seals etc are 99.9% of parts ever needed and are common commercial items. Other parts are easy to make.

Where the beginner does have to be wary is excessive wear. It to can be fixed (called reconditioning and is done by scraping) but unless you're going in eyes wide open, its likely not a practical undertaking for a beginner (although I believe you can do about anything another biped can do if you want to badly enough). Its usually easy to spot, and even you get stuck with one (I did my very first lathe) you can still make great stuff will you're looking around for another.

You're going to have a hard time getting any sort consensus on relative placing on the list. I assume you've seen Tony's site? The list part has already been done. Although not ranked, I can't say that I've ever violently disagreed with any of his comments, which should be enough to generally classify them in your mind.... and it covers a lot of lathes!

lathes.co.uk

Thank you, great response.

I was not aware of Tony's site. I just took a quick peek and it will be a lot more useful than the list I proposed.

Way more lathes than I anticipated.

What differentiates a tool room lathe from something like a SM 2000 series UtiLathe?

From my perspective the 2000 series seems like a decent step up from my lowly CX706.

 

[Dabbler]

To elaborate on brand, there are models of some brands that I would avoid, and other models in the same brand I'd put near the top of the list. (I'm talking about you, Monarch)

If you compile a great, comprehensive list, it is very easy to lose the benefit of it for all the volume of data, and spurious assumptions that come from a uni-dimensional ranking.

If you were to compile the list of needs for a beginner (just learning), Intermediate (most of the members), and Precision Tool and Die, Here's how I would steer people:

Beginner: Southbend 9a (not 9B or 9C) and similar lathes, to 12X36 lathes of any reputable brand, excluding no-name offshore inexpensive clones. This lathe should have a QCGB (change gears are okay but take fiddling and knowledge to use), a graduated tailstock (not always a given) I would keep to the lower horsepower end, to encourage safety and prevent dire accidents.

To avoid: 7X and 9X offshore lathes - they are fussy and are hard to do accurate work with)

Intermediate (someone with lathe experience): Whatever lathe you can afford and fit in your space!! With judicious selection, offshore lathes fit well here.

Expert: Monarch 10ee, Harding HLV, Shaublin toolroom lathes, Monarch toolroom lathes (NOT production lathes), or any toolroom lathe in good condition.

Yes even a moneyed novice can use these lathes, but why buy a lambo to go grocery shopping?

I think brand pride is often misplaced - there are an abundance of great lathes out there.

 

[140mower]

I was not aware of Tony's site.

You have just discovered the hitchhiker's guide to the universe of machine tools..... Hint, there's way more than just lathes on that site. It really should come with some kind of a warning label, it seems if the brain lusts for something long enough the wallet seems to oblige, the wife, maybe not so much.