Thanks for that well thought out message, much appreciated!The folks who are on avg on the fence at this are the ones with (much) larger machines and have more experience machining.
My very personal opinion, thinking back to when I had no sapce (living in a condo) and no spare cash is that I would offer the $1600 after seeing the machines in person. Take along a sample of what you want to work on to see if the work envelope works at all. Twiddle dials, see if the machines are well used or little used (you can tell none of that from photos). Look for hammer marks, dings on the ways, holes in the mill table or vise, all the tell tale sign of maybe taking a pass.
Don't get caught up in the DRO or not stuff, that can be added later at different price points. It won't affect the accuracy of the machine, 'just' ease of use. The machnes do look reasonably well tooled up so you can get going doing stuff right away.
The above is my personal experience going from Unimat lathe to Taig lathe to KC102 lathe and a wierd horizontal mill to an Atlas horizontal to now a King KC20. Thankfully all in the fairly spacy basement shop. Also added a Sherline lathe for tiny work. You have to start somewhere.
My wife taught me a wonderful saying years ago, "f you don't ask you don't get". So make the offer and go from there. You have to know what your personal limit is financially.
gerrit
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King Canada 7"x12" mini lathe, $1200, Red Deer, AB
- Thread starter JustaDB
- Start date
Thanks for that well thought out message, much appreciated!
A lathe spins the work, a mill spins the tool. It's easy to mount a tool in the lathe chuck and spin it. It's also relatively easy to attach a piece of work to the tool post and move it as required against the spinning tool. For vertical you just adjust the height. Obviously that isn't as easy as mounting a part in a vice on a mill, but the point is that it can be done. Basically, a lathe can spin the work or the tool, but mills don't have the gearing or the chuck capacity that it takes to spin work.
The difference between 1800 and 1600 is only $200 - a few tools - or dinner out with another couple. As Gerrit says, you will never know if you don't ask. Just be careful not to paint yourself into a corner such that you can't up your offer if he says no. Unless you believe they are not worth the extra 200 - if so, then walk away.
Frankly, you won't have much trouble selling the pair for that or for a tiny loss on that down the road if you decide to upgrade. Worst case, say you can only sell for a grand in two years. That means you used the stuff for 200 each per year. Big deal.
I think you need to ask yourself if you want them or not and not worry so much about a few hundred either way. I might give very different advice at 4 grand.
I see your point regarding lath vs mill, makes sense!
At this current time $200 is decently significant to me for a hobby, but you are right do I want those two machines enough, they are the lowest entry model for both types. I am typically a proponent of by "once cry once", but most of my hobbies to date haven't started with just the main piece of equipment or tool starting at $1000 new (on sale) before the added tooling/accessories/etc so in this case I struggle to find that balance, I see units like the CX612 that I could make work with a couple hundred in tooling or the G0781 (assuming shipping customs isn't more that ~$400) which I could likely stretch my budget for but then I'll need tooling and then a lathe would be +1 year down the road plus if I don't like it then I am going to have a larger loss re selling. Haha as you can see I can talk my self in circles pretty well haha. More to ponder for sure
gerritv
Gerrit
The CX612 is a close match to the King KC15 so why spend so much more for new plus tooling???? The one listed indicates 'as new'. The G0781 is basically the same as well, again for more money than the 'as new' one local to you.
I can't see how you are going to lose money down the road, but that is just an observation of my past machine sales. I didn't always make money but I never lost any.
I understand your churning about with a decision but you have an opportunity to see and touch these specific machines, they come with tooling. If you waffle too long the machines will be gone once you get through your decision process. Many on this forum before have made that mistake of wating too long when an opportunity arises.
As I said earlier, take something with you that you want/need to machine, see if it fits, twiddle hand wheels and dials etc. Listen to the sounds, move things and decide then. If he accepts your $1600 or whatever, take the machines home and enjoy them until/if you decide you really need something else. in the meantime you gain experience on light machines that will benefit you if/when you get larger ones.
I can't see how you are going to lose money down the road, but that is just an observation of my past machine sales. I didn't always make money but I never lost any.
I understand your churning about with a decision but you have an opportunity to see and touch these specific machines, they come with tooling. If you waffle too long the machines will be gone once you get through your decision process. Many on this forum before have made that mistake of wating too long when an opportunity arises.
As I said earlier, take something with you that you want/need to machine, see if it fits, twiddle hand wheels and dials etc. Listen to the sounds, move things and decide then. If he accepts your $1600 or whatever, take the machines home and enjoy them until/if you decide you really need something else. in the meantime you gain experience on light machines that will benefit you if/when you get larger ones.
Good points thanks, I am now leaning more toward these two units.
historicalarms
Ultra Member
Im with Gerritv on this one. these machines are in a price bracket that makes sence for a "starter" if your usage isnt going to out tax the machines....when using these small production machines your own patience is going to be the limiting factor in weather they are a good purchase for you as a lot of patience is needed when things happen at 1/2 the speed you first envisioned your hobby to need.
Thanks, I am thinking that machining at 1/2 the speed of what I am assuming is still infinitly faster than not having a machine haha, I think to factoring in resale and the comments made here this is a pretty reasonable way to dip my feet into the world of machining.
Jswain
Joe
$800/each would be worth it. Just don't buy a lot of machine specific tooling, until you use them enough to see how long you will keep them before/if upgrading.
The mill is r8 spindle which is good, if you upgrade to a larger machine with an r8 spindle all those accessories can go with.
The mill is r8 spindle which is good, if you upgrade to a larger machine with an r8 spindle all those accessories can go with.
Thanks for that.
@gerritv @historicalarms @Susquatch
To throw a monkey wrench I to the mix a G9729 just got posted in calgary for $1300 on fb (I can't link from my phone I don't have fb and saw it on my wife's) thoughts on the combo machines, I have heard they are a compromise more on the milling capability side? Though I think that would be a bit of a bear to get into a basement (but maybe could get it around back to the walk-in door, I'll have to check the specs
Oh wow at +600lb I'd have to hire someone to move that... still thoughts?
This one?
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I started with a Unimat DB 200. Extremely light duty and frustrating to use, but you could have fun with it and make parts. otoh, that it could make parts has no impact on the long lists reasons why bigger better machines are worth it and that now I wouldn't be very happy with it.
It depends where you are and what you want and you're not stuck with any particular machine forever.
It depends where you are and what you want and you're not stuck with any particular machine forever.
Ya that oneThis one?
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View attachment 50147
Two of my good friends have combo machines and they love them. So I have a soft spot in my heart for them too.
Remember that weight usually equals rigidity. It is NOT A BAD THING. The majority of the members here have moved stuff a lot heavier than that. Sometimes by ourselves. Most of our machines weigh thousands of pounds, not hundreds.
Weight demands respect, not fear. Anticipate every possibility and take your time. And there is nothing wrong with seeking help.
Given everything you have said so far, I think you will probably be happier for a few years with the two smaller machines. That's just my impression. I could be wrong.
I agree with the earlier advice not to buy any size specific tooling if you can avoid it.
Sounds good, thanks for your input!
140mower
Don
......ummm, you're not off the hook yet, I do believe you are (not really, but.... ) obligated to post up pictures of the new additions as well as babies first chips, first project, well, you get the idea..... We're gunna need some pictures.
Good for you. Deals are nice but maybe we get too preoccupied with them. Sometimes better to just get what you want now vs waiting years to save pennies a day.
Don's right, photos or it didn't happen.
......ummm, you're not off the hook yet, I do believe you are (not really, but.... ) obligated to post up pictures of the new additions as well as babies first chips, first project, well, you get the idea..... We're gunna need some pictures.
Haha sounds good I'll get some photos in due time, caught a summer bug so I am down for the count for the moment.