How to load a lathe

[van123d]

I have tried calling a couple of riggers, “The Brothers hoisting and rigging” who said they were too busy, and I have requested a quote from Hendrie machinery movers but have not heard back from them.

Does anyone have any experience with a rigger in the area that they would recommend?

If I rent the drop deck trailer, is it low enough that it could be pulled on with a come-along while on rollers or machine skates?

 

[Dabbler]

If I rent the drop deck trailer, is it low enough that it could be pulled on with a come-along while on rollers or machine skates?

yes - with care. there is about a 1" step if you are on concrete, so hitting that lip perpendicular is important. Using a pry bar to lift the machine skates a bit will help. Take care not to put too much pressure on the come-along at that point. The wire rope acts like a spring and stores a lot of energy...

I'm not in GTA, so no..

 

[Tomc938]

I have moved some pretty heavy equipment (old 14" Shaper was the last one) and I like the pipe method. Nothing is very high off the ground. Still have to watch for tipping on a lathe, but a squat machine like this is a bonus. I would consider some wooden "ramps" to help with the 1" lift over the trailer lip. Trying to pull hard enough laterally to get it to go up that inch takes a lot of force, and I would very strongly concur with Dabbler that putting too much pressure on a cable is a recipe for disaster. Like breaking, and whipping around and taking the top of your skull off above the eyebrows level of disaster.

 

[Dabbler]

All my skates have 4" or 5" wheels, so they go over a 1" lip with minimal force - I help them with a pry bar, just to be safe. If you use 1" or 2" pipe, it is better to jam the pipe at the 1" step, and 'slide' the lathe on the pipe until there is room to move the pipe. Then lift the end on the trailer with your toe jack or pry bar, and reinstall your 3rd pipe. It is really remarkable how slippery steel on steel is!

This will minimize your stress on the cable.

 

[Rauce]

I have tried calling a couple of riggers, “The Brothers hoisting and rigging” who said they were too busy, and I have requested a quote from Hendrie machinery movers but have not heard back from them.

Does anyone have any experience with a rigger in the area that they would recommend?

If I rent the drop deck trailer, is it low enough that it could be pulled on with a come-along while on rollers or machine skates?

I wouldn’t bother renting a drop deck trailer if you already have your own flat bed trailer.

Rent a gantry crane with a wide enough span for your trailer and back the trailer in under it.

 

[Dabbler]

Rent a gantry crane with a wide enough span for your trailer and back the trailer in under it.

In Calgary a gantry crane costs the same as a drop bed trailer - about $150 per day....

 

[Rauce]

In Calgary a gantry crane costs the same as a drop bed trailer - about $150 per day....

True but if you already have a trailer the gantry makes loading easier than rolling it onto a drop bed trailer.

In any case there’s a lot of ways to do this.

 

[van123d]

I do like the idea of the lift-deck. I am a big fan of never needing to lift the lathe and not needing to go up ramps. I called sunbelt rentals and they said they only have one in all of Ontario and it is located in Nepean.

That can’t be true? If anyone here has rented within Ontario can you let me know what location you rented from so I can contact them directly?

Thank you for all of the help and ideas guys.

 

[Chicken lights]

Thanks everyone for suggestions so far.

Yes from my research depending on configuration they were between 3000-4000lbs so the estimate of the current owner seems accurate.

Seeing as the owner indicated I can access it with a forklift I will see if I can rent one that is low enough to fit through the door opening.

Ideally I would rent one locally, drive it onto my trailer, and then use it to load the lathe at the current owners shop and then I would have it here to unload as well. Unfortunately I think the weight of a forklift plus the lathe will put me over the 10k lbs limit for my truck and trailer.

For those who have rented a forklift, will the rental place just meet you at a specified time and wait for you to load?

If anyone has a recommendation for a place close to Barrie to rent a forklift from or who can load it for me please let me know. I will start calling places tomorrow.

If you wanted a lowboy trailer and a second pair of mitts from someone who has moved a machine once..... I could swing by Barrie and help out. Forklift on your trailer, machine on my trailer

Just throwing out ideas

 

[Chicken lights]

Does anyone have any experience with a rigger in the area that they would recommend?

Kenco, Wingeback, Redmond and associates, Evans Industrial, Trademark

 

[Canadium]

I've been told its busy season for riggers in the GTA right now and they are booked for months in advance.

 

[Mcgyver]

.
How far are you moving it?

 

[fixerup]

Five years ago I was asked to help move a lathe (1400lbs) and milling machine (2000lbs) out of my friends garage. They had booked a flatbed tow truck for 10am. I got there at 8am, and started moving the machine about one to three inches forward with a pinch bar. I was able to move the lathe and milling machine over 15 feet, right to the edge of the garage door, very safely and easily but somewhat slowly. The garage floor was not super smooth but the machined slid quite easily.
Just in case I had brought six 2" o.d X 36" pipes to move the machines if they didn't slide well on the concrete. With that kit I brought a milk crate of full of little pieces of scrap wood measuring 2" X 6" of various thickness (1/4" to 1 1/2" ) to raise the machine and a few 2"X 4" , 4" X 4" to set up the height of the pinch bar for best leverage. I used those small wood scraps to gradually lift the machines only 1/4" to 1/2" at one time and evenly all around, increasing the height until I reached 2 1/4" then slid the pipes under to be used has rollers and slowly moved the machines forward.
The tow truck arrive on time, backup in the driveway and tilted and rolled out the flatbed right against the garage floor, strapped the machine with a chain used is winch to pull them up and he took off. After seeing this till and roll out flatbed I don't think I will ever move a heavy machine using my trailer, it's not setup for it. To load a machine on my trailer takes me about an hour of different nerve wrecking hoisting technics , wheel chucking and double trailer tilting..... I am getting to old for this trouble. My next move will be either a tilting flat bed truck, a lowering trailer bed or a gantry.

Wish you all the best moving your machine and hopefully soon you will be enjoying working with this masterpiece.
Cheers!

 

[CWret]

Good advice from many - in particular i like @fixerup, @Susquatch and @Rauce comments and approaches.
I’m not one for renting when there is a way to do-it-myself (pigheaded and stubborn yep). Setting it up so you can do it yourself is good but a second person for safety reasons is advisable. I’ve been known to borrow something- but that is very uncommon.
So - not sure how close you are to Burlington, but i have several things you are welcome to borrow depending on what method you choose. (other Forum members are also welcome to borrow- usually anything i lend out come with me- that way i know it’s coming home)
I have lots of:
- 3/8” chain and bear traps,
- very HD ratchet straps (to secure load)
- large pinch bar (5’)
- 4500lb electric winch (synthetic) and a spare battery
- 1 1/2” pipe, many pieces available 5’ long
- also have 4” heavy wall pipe (but it’s not cut)
- heavy nylon slings (load rated)
- cable hand winch

A comment (caution) i didn’t hear above - going up a slope (trailer ramp) is much easier (safer) than going down.

 

[CWret]

Using bear traps in tandem is very powerful with no stretch (elastic) like a wire rope.

 

[CWret]

If using pipe - I suggest first covering the path with 1/2” plywood if there are any rough or uneven transitions.
In the photo the jump from concrete to asphalt can be made easier with some plywood (in photo that is a 1/4” drill bit under the level, not much but a problem unless using large pipe. Also some small pieces of 16 gauge steel at the plywood joints will help (in photo with 2 pieces of plywood).

 

[van123d]

So an update. I liked the idea of the drop deck trailer to simplify loading/unloading but unfortunately Sunbelt in Ontario apparently only had one in Nepean which is too far away. Eventually I was able to find one through United rentals. The locations near me were all booked on long term rentals but they had one at their Etobicoke location that was available yesterday for the move. So I drove the 1.5hr there/back first thing in the morning only to discover that while they had my reservation, they had no trailer. I was not impressed.

So on to plan-b, using my trailer and a come along with machinery skates and rollers to get it onto the trailer. Going slow we managed to get it on without tipping over. It took a while and was a long stressful process though.

Getting it off was a much better experience. My neighbour brought his loader over and with a sling picked it up a few inches while I drove the trailer out from beneath it. We set it down on blocks so that it could then be picked up with forks to move it the 10-15 feet from the driveway into the garage and set it back into the skates so I can move it around.

Where it sits now after giving it a quick clean. Wiped it down with WD-40 and cleaned the chip/oil accumulation out of the sump.

The plan now is to go through it and thoroughly clean and inspect it. There is an oil leak I need to resolve as well. Previous owner said it started after he topped up the oil so hopefully it is just overfilled. A complete rebuild/repaint will happen at some point but for now I just want to get it back into service and enjoy it for a while.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and offers to help. I investigated most of them, unfortunately riggers seemed booked up right now. A local towing company had said they could move it, which I might have gone with if I hadn’t have found the drop-deck trailer that never was.

 

[Mcgyver]

Nice to have it home and safe, glad it went well. i see you've got a Sundstrand drive.....everything in good order? Lots of info on PM on them.

 

[Susquatch]

Congrats on your new machine!

I'm glad to hear it's home safe and sound. That's what really matters most.

So I drove the 1.5hr there/back first thing in the morning only to discover that while they had my reservation, they had no trailer. I was not impressed.

This really pisses me off. Been there done that too. We could have an entire thread here on rental failures. Ones like yours or wrong unit, wrong size, wrong height, flat tires, broken hitches, no or bad wiring, bad lights,....... The list goes on and on and on......

It isn't just trailers either. Equipment rentals are just as bad. Equipment reserved but not there, wrong lifts, gantry wrong width or height, missing parts. Etc etc etc.

If anyone on here rents frequently and never has a problem, please share how you manage to accomplish this miracle.....

 

[van123d]

Nice to have it home and safe, glad it went well. i see you've got a Sundstrand drive.....everything in good order? Lots of info on PM on them.

The previous owner claimed it was intermittently not starting, and didn’t start when I went to pick it up. The switch is off-on-momentary, when you hold it in momentary the motor turns-stops-turns-stops etc. when you release the switch into the run position it stops. Almost like some sort of overload is being tripped. While the motor would not run continuously it was enough to see it turn and the output of the Sundstrand drive also turning, carriage operating etc. So I believe the Sundstrand is functional and I have an electrical issue to resolve.

There is a lot of info on the Monarch’s but not a lot of info on the early Sundstrand version. The earliest Monarch manual I can find for a round dial is the motor-generator version. I will have to pull the drive so I can trace the electrical and see what is going on. I have found a copy of the 6 page sundstrand drive manual which only covers the hydraulic pump. I wish I could find a monarch manual that has the schematics and diagrams for the lathe.

There is a guy on the PM forums that has documented a rebuild of the sundstrand and I have saved all of that in case I need it in the future.

It came with a Rapid Type A tool post installed but only one tool holder and one drill chuck holder. Also a disassembled Rapid type M holder, not sure if it is all there but several tool holders. Looks small for this lathe though. I am not familiar with these so I will need to do some research on the quality of these and if it is worth getting more tool holders or switching to a different system.

Everything that came with the lathe. Two Skinner chucks that are likely original, a Bison 6” chuck, drill chucks, tool holders, and a backing plate that doesn’t fit this lathe.

One thing I am unsure of is there is a bar and holder on the front of the lathe. I believe this is original as I have seen photos online of other early 10EEs with the identical bar or just the holders. Anyone know what this was used for? Keeping the apprentice from touching your new lathe?