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Garage Renovation following Lightening Strike and Fire July 21, 2025.

Codes dictate allowable steel deflection and safety factors (yes, I’m in the U.S., but it’s named the “International Building Code”). Also keep in mind that local codes can be more stringent than the IBC.

No, I’m not a Structural Engineer (or a PE for that matter); however, I have 15 years experience explaining to clients why they can’t “do what we did the last time.”

I'm not sure what your getting at? What I was trying to convey is that a smaller height beam doesn't mean it's less expensive, never once did I tell him not to get it designed by an engineer

I install steel for a living, I might have some experience in this area, and never once did I say 'this is what you need' I say it will 'at least be 10 or 12...and it will depend how conservative your engineer is, maybe he wants a 16, maybe he's ok with a heavy 12, there are many ways to get the numbers he wants. Tall and skinny or short and heavy, a good engineer will work with the restrictions outlined (heights, clearances, beam availability, etc)
 
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I’m not an engineer either, but did try to wade thru a few sections of NBCC a few years ago learning about a specific topic not related to the OP’s. This is Canada’s version of IBC as I understand it.

What I’d be interested in about the OP’s question, is live vs dead loads percentage in lifting beams. Not the same as beams for structural support. Does this explain smaller (relative) beams for static conditions inside building structures? And as once explained to me by an actual Mech Engineer PE: the ‘gorilla factor’. He increases his safety factor calcs when designing for lifts for same weight in sewer repair or mining for example, vs say, instrument machine shops. Probably not the exact analogy he used, but you get the poiint.

On edit- phaxtris types faster than me ;-)
 
I'm not sure what your getting at? What I was trying to convey is that a smaller height beam doesn't mean it's more expensive, never once did I tell him not to get it designed by an engineer
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you did.

This is also a free standing crane, house building codes do not cover that.
IBC is not just for residential building, it's applicable to all structures, with certain lesser requirements (mostly dealy with egress) for residential (depending on occupancy).

I install steel for a living, I might have some experience in this area.
No offense, but installing/erecting is not the same as design. I agree and respect that you have a "feel" for what is required.
 
I’m not an engineer either, but did try to wade thru a few sections of NBCC a few years ago learning about a specific topic not related to the OP’s. This is Canada’s version of IBC as I understand it.

What I’d be interested in about the OP’s question, is live vs dead loads percentage in lifting beams. Not the same as beams for structural support. Does this explain smaller (relative) beams for static conditions inside building structures? And as once explained to me by an actual Mech Engineer PE: the ‘gorilla factor’. He increases his safety factor calcs when designing for lifts for same weight in sewer repair or mining for example, vs say, instrument machine shops. Probably not the exact analogy he used, but you get the poiint.

On edit- phaxtris types faster than me ;-)


Ahh pretty much the same speed , I think you and I are on the same page regarding thjs
 
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you did.


IBC is not just for residential building, it's applicable to all structures, with certain lesser requirements (mostly dealy with egress) for residential (depending on occupancy).


No offense, but installing/erecting is not the same as design. I agree and respect that you have a "feel" for what is required.

I didnt give him a design, i gave him an "idea" of what he might be looking for, I'm sure he's trying to cost it out roughly......you know where i might have an "idea", 20 years of experience welding and erecting/installing steel, you dont think ive had to explain to a homeowner why the beam that supports a 35ft clear span needs to be 8000 lbs (with the associated price tag)?

it is really only homeowners that question this (sometimes they show up when the crane is there), everyone else is in the same boat "thats what the engineer spec'd, as am i

and believe me engineers are not all the same, some are more conservative with numbers than others, usually that also boils down experience, the younger/less experienced the engineer the more overkill you get, And that is one engineer saying that about another. Often jobs i am on will have have several engineers, one EOR, one or two EIT's, and our engineer, and there is often times where the engineers do not agree, EIT's usually overkill, then if the EOR is lazy he will look "oh yea that will work"...of course it will...and then the fight is not worth it (our engineer to the EOR)
 
IBC is not just for residential building, it's applicable to all structures, with certain lesser requirements (mostly dealy with egress) for residential (depending on occupancy).

As far as I know, Canada doesn't use the IBC Charlie. Nor does it accept the IBC as an alternative to the various standards here.

Every once in a while this becomes an issue when an international company tries to use IBC standards for construction in Canada of a copy building that has been built in another country and they want to save design costs.

It's also a problem when we buy stuff at places like Princess Auto and assume it meets requirements. Sometimes it does, but often it doesn't.

Then again, I retired from professional engineering 20 years ago and lots has changed since then.
 
As far as I know, Canada doesn't use the IBC Charlie. Nor does it accept the IBC as an alternative to the various standards here.

Every once in a while this becomes an issue when an international company tries to use IBC standards for construction in Canada of a copy building that has been built in another country and they want to save design costs.

It's also a problem when we buy stuff at places like Princess Auto and assume it meets requirements. Sometimes it does, but often it doesn't.

Then again, I retired from professional engineering 20 years ago and lots has changed since then.

At Princess Auto I always look for the Engineer's stamp of approval:

Power Fist.PNG
 
Great tips, Thank you - calling today for used beams.

Look for the demo and salvage guys I suggest, the ones who keep stuff lying around.

I went to an estate sale last year where the former owner had built an excellent powered overhead system in his shop-garage. I doubt he had an engineer involved, but he was talented welder and fabricator and it was overbuilt instead. The main members were all bolted with substantial tie plates IIRC, and there were at least three uprights on the long sides of the rectangle. I'll see if I can find the photos I took.
 
as an engineer I can tell you that while the physics that underly the strength of beams does not vary, building codes sure do.

In Canada, the default code is the NBCC (National Building Code of Canada). But it is super-seeded in every province by provincial codes, and an every major municipality has their own too. A lot of the local provisions are for things like preventing the spread of fire between closely spaced building, but some of them are just odd. No one here will be able to give definitive advise.

also, NBCC does not apply to roads bridges, railways or ports - and probably other stuff - each kind has their own complete set of codes national, provincial and local. Many are incomplete, based on other standards, or require special knowledge to correctly apply.

in your case, you probably want the cheapest beam that will do the job. Steel is generally sold by weight, so that means the lightest. In general, the tallest beam will be the lightest one that can support a certain load, but it must be braced laterally to prevent it from flopping over (lateral tortional buckling) and the web must be thick enough to avoid sheer failure. Generally, the deflection criteria govern rather than the strength - i.e. it can't bend more than 1/300th of the length or so, and beams that are stiff enough to not bend are also strong enough to not fail

again, no one here can help beyond generalities as an engineering calculation with your exact circumstances is required.

it is generally easier to check if a certain beam will be good enough than to design the perfect one, so if you have one in mind, or a few from a salvage yard, ask the engineer about them. His process of designing involves experience based guessing and checking anyways, so you might be able to short circuit that process by suggesting sections that you can actually source
 
I'm looking at off cuts of a 16x40 (20ish ft), a 10x39 (25ft)and a 12x14 (25ft)

The owner of said beams is not around ATM, but I'm sure he would be willing to sell one of them to you if one of those worked

12x14 would be the cheapest, but the flanges are rather light, it may not suffice
 
If the work is major enough you already have an engineer and need building permits, I can see pushing the design to include an I beam capable of supporting an additional wight ....but if its just tucking a beam to an existing situation I think there will be a surprisingly big gap between doing it by the book and pulling the shades. That's not advocating one or the other just stating what I think is the reality.

We've made lots of cranes (biggest was 110' 80ton double box girder) and are constantly making lifting devices so we are exposed to the process. The engineer has do the same level of calculation and verification regardless and that isn't cheap. It can be 1000's for a simple lifting device (lugs on a bin, spreader bar, lifting hooks etc) let alone a crane. And that is with us providing the design and drawings, i.e. the engineer just reviews and stamps. Then, what holds this beam up? That needs to be engineered as well. If its a column the structural guy will give you loads on the column baseplate and then you hire a civil engineer for the foundation. Might have to supply soil compaction report. .... and of course a building permit for doing foundation work. it adds up.

Over the top? Maybe, but 4000-6000 pounds is not inconsequential and when the engineer says it won't fall down, he is putting his livelihood on the line so has to put the hours into it.

Let us know how you make out, curious what you .
 
Enjoying a little shop time before work today and thought of the OP. Lifting and flipping this little 300 lb auxiliary mill table (thanks to a member of this site who sold it to me!) would not have been as easy without my shop’s chainfalls. Seems lifts like this are needed frequently in my place even though I’m not commercial.

Yeah, I know tubular webbing isn’t all that cut resistant. I’m just using up old stock of climbing webbing that I don’t trust for anchors anymore and only doing lifts that are three feet off the ground or lower unless better rigged.
 

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