Firearm parts

[Janger]

A guy here in Alberta has been charged with various gun making offences. He was 3D printing them. I have a general rule that I don’t do any firearm related machining. This is a good reminder Canada has laws about this sort of thing. I have no idea what is or isn’t allowed. So everyone please be careful with what work or personal stuff you do. It would be good if someone can post facts not opinion on this.

Please the forum is not a suitable place for a gun politics discussion. This is a red hot topic so let’s keep it civil as usual.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7313873/alberta-man-charged-alert-3d-printing-firearm-parts/

 

[YYCHM]

This is actually an off topic item John. The guy was manufacturing prohibited and restricted items and knew it. Right up there with building bombs.

 

[Janger]

Well... yeah making machine guns is likely a problem. ( joke probably not funny sorry) But what about other odds n ends? It's come up a couple times. e.g. one guy wanted brass sort of fake bullets - they had a name - they prevented damage when firing empty for training I guess. I said no - no gun stuff sorry. But in the list of charges to the 3d print guy included: Unauthorized possession of a non-restricted firearm, Manufacturing a non-restricted firearm. Where's the line? How about engraving a gun? Is that allowed? I don't have a gun license - so is having a gun in my shop to engrave it not allowed? I suspect it is not allowed. But I have no idea.

Maybe it would be good to have a bit of a FAQ on firearm machining - not legal advice but just a general statement.

 

[YYCHM]

You can have any firearm in your shop that you hold a licence to be in possession of. The fact that you hold a licence also means you have taken instruction as to what is and what is not a non-restricted/restricted/prohibited device and know the legalities of barrel length and overall length etc. To offer gunsmithing services for pay requires a gunsmithing licence and additional education requrements.

But ya, I see your point. If you're not familiar with firearms don't touch it, but even that is common sense when it comes to handling them.

BTB - It was me who asked if you could turn some 22 snap caps on your CNC lathe LOL.

Craig

 

[Janger]

Oh right I forgot that was you Craig. sorry

 

[francist]

It’s a slippery topic for sure but also one that is pretty easy to stumble into. There’s lots of folks with legal firearms for either hunting or target that might want a small part made or modified. Is it ok to make the part so long as you don’t have the actual firing components in your possession (a set of custom grips, for instance, or a brass deflector) or is that classified as “gunsmithing” regardless.

Whatever the answer, I think it behooves the person to know and understand that for themselves, complete with all the niggly legal bits, because if push ever comes to shove it will be of absolutely no use to say “... oh, well so and so said it was okay for me to do...”.

-frank

 

[Chicken lights]

I really struggle with firearms laws in Canada. An AR15 lower receiver is “technically” the “firearm” piece of the gun. Yet without all the other pieces that go along with it there’s no way just an aluminum paper weight can fire a bullet

I’d think the 3D printing of firearms should be pretty obvious that’s a hard no, but I see the other side of it, so can you make grips or sights and be ok

When do you cross the line of being hired to modify parts into what’s gunsmithing?

 

[Dabbler]

There are a bunch of regulations around doing gunsmithing. What I have learned over the years would require way too much space here and isn't worth it. I have worked beside the guys that maintain the TAC team rifles for the CPS and the RCMP (Alberta) for more than 20 years - but not actually machining things for them, It gets very complicated very quickly- even the licensing is arcane.

I'll restrict myself to what you can do as a machinist WITHOUT having any kind of PAL:

1) You may make or modify non-firearms components ( such as snap caps). These are not part of any firearm and are not explosive devices. Nor are they regulated devices.

2) You can make/modify stocks and hand grips, providing: for all the time that you are in proximity of the receiver or serialized portion of a firearm (as necessary to make the stock parts) you are in the presence of the person legally entitled to possess it. If they take the action with them, you can continue to work on the stock.
- believe it or not, this includes prohibited weapons, but it gets complicated when the person leaves your presence, so stick to normal hunting type firearm wood stocks and that is okay.

...and that's about it for the simple stuff, believe it or not.

Another real problem is liability. Modifying an action part places you square in the cross hairs of civil action if there is an injury with that gun later. -- I have a bit of practical experience in this area (no one was harmed, nor was I ever sued)

Before Wholesale sports went belly up, they carried a 5M$ liability policy on gun repairs.

 

[kevin.decelles]

Tough topic. Guns-mithing involves so many aspects of machining that it is a valid topic (look no further than articles in "Home Shop Machinist" or "machinist workshop"). That said, my own personal policy is to group it with politics and religion -- Less angst that way. There is no 'safe' road through any of those topics, you are guaranteed to offend someone.

I support a ruling (either way) on this topic as any decision shows thought and leadership. It won't affect my personal views or relationships I've established with people on this forum.

 

[Janger]

Good discussion. Thanks for the insight everybody. I'm going to stick with my rule 'no gun stuff'. Just seems simpler to me.

Anybody considering doing any firearm work please consider getting real legal advice from a lawyer - no one here is a lawyer and these are just ordinary people and their opinions. Liability, insurance, licensing and the law are obviously complicated topics. Do your homework and stay safe.