Farmer Porn

[Susquatch]

Actually its very simple as they send the time and the GPS calculates the distance and location based on the sat location, which is why you need at least 3, the more the better the location.

As to why they scramble mobile long range systems (think foreign ICBMs) do not track LORAN or the RKT systems but rely on Civilian GPS which if scrambled to a 100m is the difference between a miss or a damaging hit.

GPS sat's are all USA sat's.

Now to be fair there is a lot more to it than this, but for the purposes of general info and understanding it is more than enough

No need to explain or simplify anything for me. I understand how it all works in very great detail.

Whatever the US does to their Satelite system, doesn't affect ICBMs. ICBMs use inertial guidance systems not GPS. Even short range missiles only use gps for course verification. GPS is simply too easy to jam.

Besides, the Russians & Chinese both have their own GPS satellite constellations called GLONASS & BeiDou respectively.

Lastly, ICBMs are all armed with nuclear war heads. A near miss doesn't really matter. As far as I know, there are no non-nuclear ICBMs.

FWIW, there is also an EU system called Galileo and there are two regional systems QZSS (Japan) and IRNSS or NavIC (India). Most modern GPS units use more than just one constellation. The one that I designed and built uses all four of the existing constellations.

But I could see an older nav system on an airplane that might be on a suicide run aimed at an office tower being affected. I was only saying I had not heard that the US deliberately put error into the gps system on 9/11 and therefore I was asking if you know for sure that it was or were just speculating.

 

[DPittman]

Finally finished my taxes and taking a little time to stop and smell the roses.

Got my crops in a bit late this year but the corn is looking GREAT! Thought you folks might appreciate a little Farmer Porn - aka nice rows of corn! Guaranteed to get any farmer all excited!

View attachment 24530

My rows are not as straight as the best farmers, but I'm proud of it anyway. I built myself an RTK 1cm precision GPS System back before I joined the forum. It would have been an interesting project to share. But I have no autosteer so I don't use it for planting - only for fertilizing, spraying, and working dirt. Otherwise those corn rows would be precision aligned to be perfectly parallel to my laneway. Approximately the same precision as a tenth of a thou over the length of a 10" bar..... LOL!

It makes no sense to me that if you have 1cm accuracy that you do not have auto steer. Surely you are not using that precision to chase around a light bar?

 

[Former Member]

After 911 the error was activated again for a short period and on a few other occasions since then.

BTW Wrong choice of missile for example, but that is the concept for scrambling.

I have seen drifts as far as 150m on a few occasions in the early 90's. The fastest was drift about 40m in about 3hrs.

 

[Susquatch]

It makes no sense to me that if you have 1cm accuracy that you do not have auto steer. Surely you are not using that precision to chase around a light bar?

Well sort of but not really. I use a tablet with Google maps instead of a light bar. That way I can follow a superimposed vector instead of a bar of LEDs.

Recall that I don't use it for planting. Just fertilizing, spraying, and working dirt. In those situations the precision is not required. A simple point and go is plenty good enough.

The trouble with steering is my old tractors. They are not autosteer ready. I'd have to design and build a standalone system or buy new tractors. I'm just not ready for that kind of expense. My planter marker system works just fine for the money.

Ya, I didn't have to design the gps system for that kind of accuracy, but then again why not? This way I can use it for surveying too.

If I ever come up with an easy steering interface, maybe I'll reconsider.

 

[DPittman]

Well sort of but not really. I use a tablet with Google maps instead of a light bar. That way I can follow a superimposed vector instead of a bar of LEDs.

Recall that I don't use it for planting. Just fertilizing, spraying, and working dirt. In those situations the precision is not required. A simple point and go is plenty good enough.

The trouble with steering is my old tractors. They are not autosteer ready. I'd have to design and build a standalone system or buy new tractors. I'm just not ready for that kind of expense. My planter marker system works just fine for the money.

Ya, I didn't have to design the gps system for that kind of accuracy, but then again why not? This way I can use it for surveying too.

If I ever come up with an easy steering interface, maybe I'll reconsider.

Just a couple of points...

Yes great precision is not necessary for those field operations you listed. However it sounded like you purposely incorporated high precision components and planning in your design. It seems like a waste not to use that effort.

Almost any farm machinery with a steering wheel can be EASILY adapted with auto steer technology.

Don't quote me on the price but several years ago (6-10) I believe one of the more popular retrofits could be had for under $4000. And the basic ones can be easily swapped out of one tractor into another if need be. No need to design your own "standalone system or buy new tractors". Check out Trimble Ez Steer.

I'm going to assume you are using GPS more for fun and pride than for economical reasons. Typically a fellow needs to farm at least several hundred acres (or fewer very high value crops) to make most GPS guidance systems pay. And if you farm alot of acres, then it is usually very easy to justify expensive GPS guidance systems.

 

[Susquatch]

Just a couple of points...

Yes great precision is not necessary for those field operations you listed. However it sounded like you purposely incorporated high precision components and planning in your design. It seems like a waste not to use that effort.

You are a smart cookie. Yes, part of me likes to play, but another part likes to look ahead. Autosteer planting is a long term goal. In the meantime, locating survey stakes for my neighbours and I is a short term goal. I have a surveyors theodolite but GPS is WAY Better for that.

Almost any farm machinery with a steering wheel can be EASILY adapted with auto steer technology.

Don't quote me on the price but several years ago (6-10) I believe one of the more popular retrofits could be had for under $4000. And the basic ones can be easily swapped out of one tractor into another if need be. No need to design your own "standalone system or buy new tractors". Check out Trimble Ez Steer.

I looked at all these systems exhaustively before deciding to make my own. Your 4 grand is more like 10 today. EXCEPT, I have heard that Field Bee is planning to make a steering unit that is much less expensive. It just isn't yet available. I believe you remove your old wheel and replace it with theirs.

I'm going to assume you are using GPS more for fun and pride than for economical reasons. Typically a fellow needs to farm at least several hundred acres (or fewer very high value crops) to make most GPS guidance systems pay. And if you farm alot of acres, then it is usually very easy to justify expensive GPS guidance systems.

I only farm cash crops on 100 acres. Plenty enough for an old man. Regular GPS is 20 grand for the hardware and 10 grand a year for the base station subscription. Not happening here.

Planting is one thing, but fertilizing and spreading is another. Prior to building my gps units, I had to go out and put survey flags across both ends and at several intervals in between each of my three 200 yard wide fields to mark off 50 ft Spreader intervals. Usually, you are in a hurry to beat the rain or get it done before planting. Let's not forget my poor eyesight.

Even spraying existing crops is a pain cuz you have to count rows. Overlap is a VERY BAD IDEA, and missing a stripe or row means a row of weeds down the whole field - ugly and embarrassing too. GPS makes all that REALLY EASY.

Working dirt is another vote for GPS. Neither one of my tractors will turn sharply enough to make adjacent paths across a field. So randomly spaced paths are pretty much the rule. GPS makes that easy and efficient to do too. Just lay guidance lines at whatever spacing you want for your equipment and then just pick a guidance line and go, then pick another one for the next pass and go again etc.

I have two tractors I use for field work. I will need two autosteer setups. So interchangeability is also a goal if I end up doing that.

I am also mid 70s. In ten years I'll be mid 80s. In 20 mid 90s. I hope I'll still be driving a tractor and throwing seed bags by then, but the hedge rows may be wishing otherwise.......

I fully expect you know all that, but sometimes we all need reminding. My glass is way more than half full with what I have. Maybe some day I'll overflow the glass with autosteer. And yes, I did design the unit with output to control steering if I ever wanted it.

 

[DPittman]

I looked at all these systems exhaustively before deciding to make my own. Your 4 grand is more like 10 today.

I think you need to check out prices again, it looks like things have gotten cheaper not more expensive. You already have the precision gps component in place all you need is the electrically driven steering wheel motor gizmo.

EZ-Steer® for EZ-Guide® 250/500 Base Kit

The Trimble™ EZ-Steer® assisted steering system provides simple, portable, hands-free farming for more than 1200 vehicle models – old and new. The EZ-Steer® system turns the steering wheel for you by combining a friction wheel and a motor with guidance from any Trimble™ display. It keeps your...

www.vantagenortheast.com

 

[DPittman]

Possibly on 100 acres you may find it maneable as is but from my own limited experience I found trying to follow a screen or light bar for navigation very tiring. The auto steer makes it much much less exhausting for the operator.
My brothers put an auto steer on a swather years ago (before that was common) for the very reason of making it less fatiguing for the operator. Maybe it's no big deal for you yet while your still in your prime but maybe in another 20 years you might find it necessary

 

[historicalarms]

I dont live in a row-crop area at all, just big open fields that most can be seen for miles and the bain of farmers in that environ is a seed drill section that doesnt "trip" the seed meter when the rest of the implement does and leaves a swath of unseeded field that can be seen by the neighbors for the rest of the year...shows up like stripes on a zebra.

 

[6.5 Fan]

We call those missed rows of crop "tram lines"

 

[Susquatch]

I think you need to check out prices again, it looks like things have gotten cheaper not more expensive. You already have the precision gps component in place all you need is the electrically driven steering wheel motor gizmo.

EZ-Steer® for EZ-Guide® 250/500 Base Kit

The Trimble™ EZ-Steer® assisted steering system provides simple, portable, hands-free farming for more than 1200 vehicle models – old and new. The EZ-Steer® system turns the steering wheel for you by combining a friction wheel and a motor with guidance from any Trimble™ display. It keeps your...

www.vantagenortheast.com

Ya, that's about right.

Keep in mind that the prices I mentioned before were for OEM. I believe I said that but could have been clearer.

The motor drive you linked to still requires the column half. Don't know much that is altogether. Prolly not double.

I think my problem with that system is that it's too much stuff between my legs. Not a lot of room left there as it is......

The new field bee system (no idea how much) replaces the wheel so it should be ok. My fingers are crossed.

Possibly on 100 acres you may find it maneable as is but from my own limited experience I found trying to follow a screen or light bar for navigation very tiring.

Yes, this true. I found the best way to minimize this is to abandon the idea of trying to hold to an inch. Just use it to aim and correct only as needed. Ignore most of the time. A foot one way or the other is no big deal for spraying spreading or working dirt.

Hey, in case it's not obvious here, I'm not trying to poo-poo autosteer for farming. It has its place and it's in the future plan. But there is only so much time and money. One step at a time.

 

[Susquatch]

We call those missed rows of crop "tram lines"

That's especially funny because none of the farmers in my area did tram lines till I arrived. I brought the idea east with me. After a few farmers asked me about them, and I showed them the economics, there has been a transformation. Everyone does tram lines in beans around here now.

It's also related to another project on my todo list. Gotta find a way to turn off planter rows with a switch in the cab. It's a pain in the butt stopping to disconnect the drives.

 

[Dusty]

Git yr self a keen farm doggy. Just saying!

 

[6.5 Fan]

You can go old school and use a low tech cheap disc marker. Used them for many years on the old hoe drills. Please no "hoe" jokes

 

[DPittman]

You can go old school and use a low tech cheap disc marker. Used them for many years on the old hoe drills. Please no "hoe" jokes

Yup and you never have to worry about the satellites being "down" or drifting for unknown reasons and all the other electronic glitches that go along with high tech.

 

[Susquatch]

You can go old school and use a low tech cheap disc marker. Used them for many years on the old hoe drills. Please no "hoe" jokes

Yup and you never have to worry about the satellites being "down" or drifting for unknown reasons and all the other electronic glitches that go along with high tech.

Jezz guys, isn't that exactly what I said I did do?

Markers work just fine for me.

Well,.... Except for the year the bolt slipped, and the year I forgot to switch the marker length when I switched from beans to corn, and the year the marker hydraulics broke down in the middle of planting, and the year I broke a marker when a big branch jumped out from between parked trees......

But ya, I like markers too.

 

[combustable herbage]

What is the proper distance between plants and rows for corn? When I was growing up we never grew corn so I now try and grow it in the garden they are amazing plants love how they funnel the water down to the roots.

 

[DPittman]

What is the proper distance between plants and rows for corn? When I was growing up we never grew corn so I now try and grow it in the garden they are amazing plants love how they funnel the water down to the roots.

That's a bit like asking what is the proper lathe to use.
Well it depends on lots of different factors but corn (as should all crops) is planted based on target plant population per acre/hectare/ft/etc and so it depends on what row spacing is used that determines the spacing between plants. But to give you a ball park idea (for Alberta anyhow) target plant populations are around 32000/acre and 30" row spacing is fairly common. So plants end up being roughly 5" apart in the rows.

 

[Susquatch]

What is the proper distance between plants and rows for corn? When I was growing up we never grew corn so I now try and grow it in the garden they are amazing plants love how they funnel the water down to the roots.

There is no right answer. Or maybe I should say that it depends......

Your climate, your soil, the corn variety, etc etc all affect that.

I plant 30 inch rows with seeds about 6" apart in my best two fields, and 7" in my 3rd field. On my farm, this will yield about 250 bu/ac and 200 bu/ac with optimum fertilizing. Keep in mind that farm production is a balance between the cost of inputs and the market price of corn.

But I'm gunna assume you are talking sweet corn in southern Ontario in a vegetable garden. If so, you are not as interested in overall yield as you are in nice big full cobs.

Therefore, you can do something like 36 and 8 or so and get a good garden harvest if you fertilize and water well, and control bugs, pests, and weeds.

 

[Susquatch]

What is the proper distance between plants and rows for corn? When I was growing up we never grew corn so I now try and grow it in the garden they are amazing plants love how they funnel the water down to the roots.

@DPittman is an agronomist. I think his advice for the Prairie will be hard to beat.

The only thing I really want to add here is that corn is REALLY REALLY nitrogen hungry. If it doesn't get the nitrogen it needs, you will not get a great harvest. I use a broadcast nitrogen mix with micronutrients up front, a liquid nitrogen starter in the seed trench, and then I knife in additional liquid nitrogen with a stabilizer at the 6 leaf stage.

The reason I advocate bigger spacing for garden corn is reduce plant competition to get bigger cobs. More space is always better.

You could also prune away any extra cobs before they grow silk on each of the plants to force them to grow one cob only.