Diamond in the rough.

[PatrickT]

I thought it was another scam, but the gods of Kijiji took kindly on me today.

I'm now the proud owner of a KBC/YF 1440GH Precision lathe, and after getting to spend over two hours inspecting it, I can tell you this was an absolute dream come true. The seller was happy too, it's being transported out of his shop this week, freeing up some much needed space for his new equipment. He was convinced there was a broken gearbox due to a rattle, was very transparent about it, but for $1000, I couldn't resist. I gave him the cash as soon as I saw it, plus an extra $50 so I could spend time seeing what it would need for a rebuild, except..... IT DOESN'T!!

Just the tooling he included with it was worth more than what I paid. It belonged to his father in law, who passed not long after buying it, and sat in the back of the shop for several years, accumulating surface dust, and some shop rash from a few runs of small brass fittings.

Here's what I uncovered and verified:

-No broken gears; the lead screw gear under the driveline cover had just lost tensioning, creating a horrendous rattle. With a single bump of a mallet, the gears meshed perfectly and the drive sounds like glass.
-No rust or corrosion anywhere.
-Gearbox was low on oil, but it was very clean, with brass shavings from some small parts production accumulated in the recirculating catches.
-All gears shifted smoothly.
-Belts were mint.
-Lead screw & engagement shaft(?) still had packing coating on about 24" of each.
-Two handles had been taken off to stick on other machines, lead screw and tail stock tensioner. So they just weren't used at all. Found them in a box nearby.
-Spindle & Chuck: With a 12" X 1" piece of ground shaft in it, there was 0.00063 to 0.0002" runout, 8" from the chuck. I moved the bar twice to confirm this. After scouring off the dirt, the spindle showed 0.0001-0.0002" runout at the casting. There were absolutely no crash marks on the chuck, barely any nicks.
-Tailstock: When clamped, I could not get a variation screwing and unscrewing it. X or y. Nothing. I don't believe it was ever cranked out.
-Spindle is 1.5" ID, and ground on left side, plenty of clearance for a spider.
-All ways were impeccable, but covered in either shipping coating or a mud of white lithium with shop related grinding dust on top of it, but not in it.
-Wiring was mint, switches all functioned and felt like new.
-Paint was atrocious, but the seller said it had been covered in skids and shop junk for years, and flaked constantly, even during limited machining of brass. It looks like paint was used as a base coat, not primer, and you can scratch it off anywhere with a fingernail.
-Chip tray was bent from a hit by a moving dolly, but it was just some sheet metal flange, I'll fix that with a mallet in good time.
-Cross slide, Topside and Lead screw handles have little if any backlash. Like literally nothing. Smooth as glass.
-Gap had never been removed.
-Original oil in gearbox and cross slide, original stickers on everything.

Some features that really stood out:
Base is cast, the whole thing tipped the scales at 2980lbs, with little to no fluids in it. I was expecting 2000lb, as it was advertised.
Gears and ways are hardened.
Product of Taiwan.
Every bearing I could get my inspection camera on was stamped NTN or NTN KUWANA; I believe this explains the low spindle runout findings.
3HP 230V 3-phase motor.
19.5" from tips of the 3 jaw to the back end of spindle. With the cover modified, I'll have 3" exposed spindle for spiders etc.

So I scored gold. She'll get a shiny new epoxy paint job, new fluids and some great tooling, and a front row seat in my shop.

 

[PeterT]

the lead screw gear under the driveline cover had just lost tensioning, creating a horrendous rattle. With a single bump of a mallet, the gears meshed perfectly and the drive sounds like glass.

Sounds like a real score, congrats. Can you elaborate on ^this^ sentence. Are you talking about the power feed shaft or the threading shaft? What exactly did you bump to make the rattling go away?

 

[PatrickT]

The little bracket indicated by my finger; the nut was loose. Tapped the gears into full mesh by tapping the bracket, tightened the bolt, and voila, no more broken gear sound.

 

[Bandit]

It looks like you have got a smoken deal there. Man, it even comes with a tail stock for that price!
Looks like the gears are there for metric/imperial threading also.

 

[PatrickT]

It looks like you have got a smoken deal there. Man, it even comes with a tail stock for that price!
Looks like the gears are there for metric/imperial threading also.

I'm still laughing about it. Right place right time I guess. I was days away from ordering a 1440VT from Matthews, so this is all going into tooling, perhaps even a VFD for this gem.

Big thanks to CHMW forum and members her for all the encouragement, I feel more confident buying gear now that this resource is available.

 

[Bandit]

Does it have a metric or imperial lead screw?
You may need to do a long face and cry about something wrong with it just so the rest of us feel "much" better!

 

[Susquatch]

The little bracket indicated by my finger; the nut was loose. Tapped the gears into full mesh by tapping the bracket, tightened the bolt, and voila, no more broken gear sound.

Looks like you are pointing at the change gear banjo. This is what is adjusted when you change gear sizes so they mesh properly. It's not very fussy but it needs a tiny bit of play as described in the manual which you should be able to find on-line.

 

[PatrickT]

Does it have a metric or imperial lead screw?
You may need to do a long face and cry about something wrong with it just so the rest of us feel "much" better!

Imperial.

 

[PatrickT]

Looks like you are pointing at the change gear banjo. This is what is adjusted when you change gear sizes so they mesh properly. It's not very fussy but it needs a tiny bit of play as described in the manual which you should be able to find on-line.

View attachment 50059

"Change gear banjo". Copy that. I've found the manuals for the YC/Birmingham versions, 1340/1440, hoping to hit up KBC tomorrow for more intel. Time to decide on lubricants and oils now, and to source some shiny new toolholders and such.

Don't hate the player, hate the game, lol.

 

[PeterT]

The little bracket indicated by my finger; the nut was loose. Tapped the gears into full mesh by tapping the bracket, tightened the bolt, and voila, no more broken gear sound.

Ah, gotcha. Easy fix.
When I hear the word rattle, first thing that comes to mind is the clutch on the power feed shaft located adjacent to the headstock. If there is resistance in the driveline, the balls in the clutch overcome their spring presure & skip in & out of their detents, essentially disengaging the power feed bar downstream to the apron. It sounds like a clackety-clack mini machine gun.

 

[PeterT]

BTW, if you find parts source for your model, I highly recommend you buy a power feed worm wheel / gear set if you can. They are a consumable wear item. They are inevitably factory made to their specific dimensions & don't correspond to anything off the shelf. Its also common that its metric pitch within an imperial lathe. You can hob one too but it involves some work. Usually on the machine you are trying to fix, LOL . Another useful spare is the threading clamshell halves for the threading leadscrew, although not quite as bad to make or modify. Typically the price isn't bad, they just become rare as time goes on.

 

[PatrickT]

BTW, if you find parts source for your model, I highly recommend you buy a power feed worm wheel / gear set if you can. They are a consumable wear item. They are inevitably factory made to their specific dimensions & don't correspond to anything off the shelf. Its also common that its metric pitch within an imperial lathe. You can hob one too but it involves some work. Usually on the machine you are trying to fix, LOL . Another useful spare is the threading clamshell halves for the threading leadscrew, although not quite as bad to make or modify. Typically the price isn't bad, they just become rare as time goes on.

Great advice. I'd wager to say this machine has less than 200 hours on it, after comparing the ways & gear train to an identical model belonging to a UK fella with the Birmingham version. But I'm all about having spares on hand for everything, and will add these to the list. Thanks!

 

[Susquatch]

Tapped the gears into full mesh by tapping the bracket, tightened the bolt

Typically, you loosen both bolt/nuts, hold the banjo by hand into engagement, and then tighten the two in sequence. You shouldn't have to tap on anything. It's an operation that should become second nature because you have to change gears to cut various thread pitches.

Don't be in a big hurry to buy tooling. Too many new machinists buy one of those fancy 6 to 10 tool sets thinking it has everything in it that they need. They are basically junk. You might learn to like one tool in the whole set. The rest will gather dust, and even the one you like will be junk compared to one quality tool like it.

Most of us recommend that you start with HSS tools and learn to grind the tools you need as you need them. After you get an idea of what your applications and needs are, you can buy a few dedicated high quality carbide insert tools.

Another thing that many of us recommend is that you make yourself a lathe height standard. There are lots of other easy ways to set your tools on center, but a standard is easy to make, easy to use, and almost foolproof. It's also a great first lathe project. Search the forum for "Height Standard" to learn more.

Take your time learning about the right oils to use. There is a lot to it and it's easy to get the wrong stuff.

Ask lots of questions.

 

[PatrickT]

Typically, you loosen both bolt/nuts, hold the banjo by hand into engagement, and then tighten the two in sequence. You shouldn't have to tap on anything. It's an operation that should become second nature because you have to change gears to cut various thread pitches.

Don't be in a big hurry to buy tooling. Too many new machinists buy one of those fancy 6 to 10 tool sets thinking it has everything in it that they need. They are basically junk. You might learn to like one tool in the whole set. The rest will gather dust, and even the one you like will be junk compared to one quality tool like it.

Most of us recommend that you start with HSS tools and learn to grind the tools you need as you need them. After you get an idea of what your applications and needs are, you can buy a few dedicated high quality carbide insert tools.

Another thing that many of us recommend is that you make yourself a lathe height standard. There are lots of other easy ways to set your tools on center, but a standard is easy to make, easy to use, and almost foolproof. It's also a great first lathe project. Search the forum for "Height Standard" to learn more.

Take your time learning about the right oils to use. There is a lot to it and it's easy to get the wrong stuff.

Ask lots of questions.

Cheers. I've acquired two dozen various Aloris BXA holders, and a good selection of Kennametal and Sandvik tooling, along with numerous used HSS tools to train on. I totally get what you're saying, but I need to go through this journey of discovery. There will be no amazon chinesium tooling in my shop.

The mallet induced Banjo adjustment was just troubleshooting; I was tapping the casting to detect loose parts when I discovered the rattle was clearly coming from outside the gearbox. The nuts on the banjo were hand tight at best.

Lubes.... so many lubes......

 

[buckbrush]

Great deal, congratulations. Do you feel like a kid at Christmas?

 

[PatrickT]

Great deal, congratulations. Do you feel like a kid at Christmas?

Buddy, I still feel like a kid on Christmas, and took this gift as a sign to follow my dreams. I know it's probably only worth $4-7k on the used market, and I'll have a hundred hours of tuning and prep into it before I start working it, but man what a nice surprise.

I spoke to a friend out east last night who's a well respected competition barrel maker. We went through all the specs, videos and details of it from my inspection, and he concurred I have a gem. He said the replacement cost of the Japanese KW bearings, which he's seen on turbine engines but never in any lathe before, are probably worth a few grand alone. He figured they were either spec'd out by some precision machinist at time of ordering, or the assembly shop may ran out of stock and popped them in to fill an order; who am I to argue with that decision! Lol.

Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, but this has inspired me to push forward with machining to a higher standard. I've got plans for lubricant recirculation and filtering, a solid VFD with tach, Acu-Rite scales and base bedding, along with the best cutting tools I can get my hands on.

She's arriving at home in a few days, where I'll start the painstaking process of cleaning, refinishing, prep and setup. I'll start a thread in due time, as there doesn't seem to be any concise or current content on these rather accurate machines, anywhere.

After pricing everything out, I'll be into it for just over $8800 tooled and ready. If I had gone the planned Matthews 1440Ultra-VT route, it was $31,000 for the lathe spec'd out to my desires, delivered and tax in, but no tooling whatsoever.

Sorry for the verbose response, but like a kid at Christmas, I'm a little excited...

 

[buckbrush]

You should be, is your friend J.C. Gautreau?

 

[PatrickT]

You should be, is your friend J.C. Gautreau?

Indeed! Hell of a nice guy.

 

[buckbrush]

Yup, one smart cookie.

 

[6.5 Fan]

Talked with J.C. while ordering a barrel, nice guy. Nice barrel.