Dan Gelbart posts unusual shop tricks

[Janger]

Dan Gelbart is back with a new video on unusual shop tricks. How to drill accurately without centre punching. How to spot weld aluminium(!). How to remove a shaft from a press fit. @Susquatch please see his ideas on rust prevention and the video comments relate some other ways as well. I'd be interested to hear if you try any of his methods and how it works out - and anyone else living where it's humid. Dan is great.

 

[Martin w]

I watched that last week. He is very good!

 

[Susquatch]

I'd be interested to hear if you try any of his methods and how it works out -

Dan suggests a bunch of methods that are not really practical in a hobby shop. They do work if you have access to the required chemicals and establish a routine for their use. However, Dan fails to mention that it is next to impossible to use chemical methods to protect internal mechanisms and surfaces from corroding.

But as he himself acknowledged, there is an easier way. Just keep the humidity down. I live in one of the worst humidity regions of Canada. I don't have any rust in my shop because I am anal about controlling humidity.

Ironically, today is the first day of the spring summer fall season when I needed to run my Dehumidifier. I dumped my first bucket of water today.

Dan doesn't mention outdoor rust prevention. But the recent testing I did with input from @Dabbler established that both Fluid Film and WD40 Specialist Corrosion Inhibitor are VERY effective at preventing outdoor (or indoor) corrosion for up to 1 year. I tested for 2 years on exposed steel and I can say it won't last that long but it will last for a year. No special mixtures or knowledge required. Just spray it on and walk away. Fluid film is also available in pails for brush on application.

 

[Canadium]

Dan Gelbart must be my favorite YouTuber! I already knew the spot welding aluminum trick and should have known the point about keeping acids in the shop. A good reminder! I'll have to find a better place to store my acids!!! By the way Sodium Hydroxide or NaOH can be obtained at candle makers supply places and is the ingredient in Easy Off oven cleaner. Also readily removes most paints so one has to be careful about getting it on painted surfaces.

 

[Janger]

There is no Wikipedia page for Dan Gelbart. That is a gap!

 

[Janger]

Watch prototyping chapters 1 through 18. I watched it years ago, watching again!

 

[canuck750]

To prevent corrosion of steel and aluminum the best product I have found is ACF-50. This product was developed by the UK for the Harrier Jump Jets. I have used it for over a decade on motorcycle restorations on bare aluminum engine and wheel hubs, steel and aluminum rims, exhaust systems etc. There have been multiple long term tests in various British motorcycle magazines coating bare steel and aluminum test pieces and leaving them outside for six months to a year. Nothing comes close to ACF-50 for protecting the base metal. It is not cheap but I have bikes with bare aluminum engines that still look great after 10 years. I buy it in one gallon jugs and spray it on with a hand pump bottle, wipe it down and let it dry over a couple days.
It can be found on Amazon.

 

[Susquatch]

To prevent corrosion of steel and aluminum the best product I have found is ACF-50. This product was developed by the UK for the Harrier Jump Jets. I have used it for over a decade on motorcycle restorations on bare aluminum engine and wheel hubs, steel and aluminum rims, exhaust systems etc. There have been multiple long term tests in various British motorcycle magazines coating bare steel and aluminum test pieces and leaving them outside for six months to a year. Nothing comes close to ACF-50 for protecting the base metal. It is not cheap but I have bikes with bare aluminum engines that still look great after 10 years. I buy it in one gallon jugs and spray it on with a hand pump bottle, wipe it down and let it dry over a couple days.
It can be found on Amazon.

I'll try it this fall.

 

[Janger]

To prevent corrosion of steel and aluminum the best product I have found is ACF-50. This product was developed by the UK for the Harrier Jump Jets. I have used it for over a decade on motorcycle restorations on bare aluminum engine and wheel hubs, steel and aluminum rims, exhaust systems etc. There have been multiple long term tests in various British motorcycle magazines coating bare steel and aluminum test pieces and leaving them outside for six months to a year. Nothing comes close to ACF-50 for protecting the base metal. It is not cheap but I have bikes with bare aluminum engines that still look great after 10 years. I buy it in one gallon jugs and spray it on with a hand pump bottle, wipe it down and let it dry over a couple days.
It can be found on Amazon.

ACF-50 is also available at fort nine a canadian company. There is always a canadian option you just have to look.

https://fortnine.ca/en/acf-50-anti-corrosion-lubricant-formula

 

[skippyelwell]

Any of the lathes I've had in the past have always been kept in the basement. This thread is appropriate for what I found this morning when I went out to the garage/shop.
We had or first warm humid day yesterday, this morning I found flash rust.
The white lathe was oiled no more than 2wks ago, the blue lathe was oiled last week with Krown rust oil.
I think I'm going to have to try something like ACF50, I can't be cleaning rust off every week.

 

[skippyelwell]

Amazon wants $33 for 13ozs, Fortnine wants $17 for 13ozs

 

[Susquatch]

I think I'm going to have to try something like ACF50, I can't be cleaning rust off every week.

The only solution that will work for you is a Dehumidifier.

The problem is that the same rust you see on the outside is also growing on the inside. That's how your tooling and mechanisms get frozen. You can, and should spray too, but it won't stop the carnage completely. If you heat the garage electrically and raise the temperature about 10 degrees higher than outside, that will lower the relative humidity too.

We can talk more at the meetup.

 

[skippyelwell]

The only solution that will work for you is a Dehumidifier.

The problem is that the same rust you see on the outside is also growing on the inside. That's how your tooling and mechanisms get frozen. You can, and should spray too, but it won't stop the carnage completely.

We can talk more at the meetup.

My garage door leaks like a sieve, dehumidifier wouldn't work in my case.
I like Dan Gelbart's idea of wiping down steel with Sodium Hydroxide to keep it on the alkaline side, when I'm washing grease off parts with a Lye based industrial cleaner I have noticed that when I pull the parts out and just let them sit there until dry, they don't rust.

 

[Canadium]

My garage door leaks like a sieve, dehumidifier wouldn't work in my case.
I like Dan Gelbart's idea of wiping down steel with Sodium Hydroxide to keep it on the alkaline side, when I'm washing grease off parts with a Lye based industrial cleaner I have noticed that when I pull the parts out and just let them sit there until dry, they don't rust.

I would bet there are lots of hobby shop situations where maintaining proper temperatures and/or humidity will be prohibitive. Thats the case in my shops so one of the projects I have lined up for this summer is to nickel electroplate a number of my machine parts. I'll see how that goes.

 

[Susquatch]

My garage door leaks like a sieve, dehumidifier wouldn't work in my case.

I dunno about that.

I'd put a lot of effort into improving the sealing of my shop before I abandoned dehumidification. For that matter, you need a fair bit of air exchange to maintain properly conditioned air.

It is the nature of the way air holds water that you don't need perfection. If you can maintain a lower humidity inside than outside, the temperature change can't cause dew (surface moisture).

My barn isn't sealed well either. The wind howls through there at times. I do have a fairly large dehumidifier, but then again, my barn is 80L x 40W x 18H. I have 2 big 12x16 doors that whistle all the time and I don't hesitate to open them as needed.

The point is that you don't need perfection. You just need lower relative humidity indoors than outdoors. You can get that by dehumidifying and/or by heating.

 

[bhowden]

My problem with dehumidifiers is finding one that will work in an unheated space. Even the ones rated for below 40 degrees F are painfully slow at those temperatures. Can anybody recommend a brand / model they have had good success with? I find mine runs just about 24X7 and doesn't remove much water. I think it is heating the space more than removing the water. Here (Victoria) I have about a month fall and spring where it is a problem. The rest of the time it isn't too bad.

Brian

 

[Canadium]

My problem with dehumidifiers is finding one that will work in an unheated space. Even the ones rated for below 40 degrees F are painfully slow at those temperatures. Can anybody recommend a brand / model they have had good success with? I find mine runs just about 24X7 and doesn't remove much water. I think it is heating the space more than removing the water. Here (Victoria) I have about a month fall and spring where it is a problem. The rest of the time it isn't too bad.

Brian

In my case I think my basement is a little damp and it doesn't matter how hard I crank the dehumidifier the humidity barely drops. If it drops its only because it makes the temperature go up a little. All I really accomplish by running a dehumidifier is getting myself a big electricity bill. I know! The answer is to tear the old house down and build a new one! I'm getting closer and closer to doing just that every day!!!

 

[mbond]

My problem with dehumidifiers is finding one that will work in an unheated space. Even the ones rated for below 40 degrees F are painfully slow at those temperatures. Can anybody recommend a brand / model they have had good success with? I find mine runs just about 24X7 and doesn't remove much water. I think it is heating the space more than removing the water. Here (Victoria) I have about a month fall and spring where it is a problem. The rest of the time it isn't too bad.

Brian

There is a thermodynamics problem that I don't think any manufacturer can do much about unfortunately

 

[Susquatch]

My problem with dehumidifiers is finding one that will work in an unheated space. Even the ones rated for below 40 degrees F are painfully slow at those temperatures. Can anybody recommend a brand / model they have had good success with?

You don't need to buy anything. You already have everything you need.

I'm serious. Cold air holds very little water. A few degrees increase in temperature will dramatically lower the relative humidity.

All you need to do is add a little heat. For small spaces at low enough temperatures, even a few lightbulbs is enough. For a garage, a, space heater is probably enough. For a small shop, a dedicated heater is better.

I don't run my Dehumidifier in the winter. In fact, I just turned it on this week. Instead, I use overhead radient heaters set to maintain the temperature 5 degrees above freezing. I'd set it even lower, but I have running water in my shop and I don't need to burst any water lines.

I'd also recommend a small battery powered humidity meter. Preferably one that measures current humidity as well as min and max. That way you can see what happened overnight.