Car designs suck

[historicalarms]

My first highway tractor had a 400 hp mechanical fuel delivery system engine and I got 4-4.2 mpg jerking a 2 axle trailer, my second truck had 475 hp and was computer controlled fuel system jerking a 3 axle trailer and I went up to 7.5 mpg ( the fuel savings made the truck payments every month), my third truck was 575 hp , pulling same trailer and I averaged 9 mpg...all 3 were geared 3:11...so technology can produce better millage.

 

[JustaDB]

Friend sent me those pics

Damn good thing, too! If glaciers weren't calving icebergs, that would mean we could be heading into the next ice age.

 

[slow-poke]

Not sure if or when the next ice age will occur but I'm glad I won't be around for it, sounds a bit beyond my shovelling capability......

from google AI...... During the last ice age, the Laurentide Ice Sheet in Canada reached a maximum thickness of approximately 4,000 meters (13,000 feet). In some areas, such as Nunavik, Quebec, the ice was even thicker, reaching up to 3.2 kilometers (2 miles). The Cordilleran ice sheet, another significant ice sheet in Canada, may have been close to 2,000 meters (6,500 feet) thick.

Things started warming up about 10,000 years ago and it was only 5000 years ago that it finally melted. Somewhere around the stone age to bronze age transition.

 

[Susquatch]

During the last ice age, the Laurentide Ice Sheet in Canada reached a maximum thickness of approximately 4,000 meters (13,000 feet).

I like to tell those who will listen that my farm sits on a glacial moraine. That's why I have so many rocks on my farm. The ice was a mile high here during the last ice age.

 

[historicalarms]

all 3 were geared 3:11...so technology can produce better millage.

A corrrection...all were geared 3.90 ....at 3.11 you wouldnt need the top 3 gears to maintain highway speed

 

[Susquatch]

Sooooo......

It is simply not true that electronics and technology have not appreciably improved vehicle fuel efficiency. They have both improved efficiency AND improved power. BUT..... And it's a very BIG BUT...... most of the efficiency gains have been lost to exhaust emissions improvements. Big trucks don't have the same Ultra low emissions requirements.

The other reality is that efficiency is very much driver and driving conditions dependent.

Best tip I can offer is to put a raw egg in a sock over the accelerator pedal and another one over the brake pedal.

 

[slow-poke]

My first highway tractor had a 400 hp mechanical fuel delivery system engine and I got 4-4.2 mpg jerking a 2 axle trailer, my second truck had 475 hp and was computer controlled fuel system jerking a 3 axle trailer and I went up to 7.5 mpg ( the fuel savings made the truck payments every month), my third truck was 575 hp , pulling same trailer and I averaged 9 mpg...all 3 were geared 3:11...so technology can produce better millage.

That's actually really impressive. That massive truck gets about the same MPG as my 2700lb Mustang. Same horsepower 570-575 I'm guessing the truck has 3x the torque?

Diesel has about 10% more energy per gallon, and a Diesel engine is an inherently more efficient engine with twice the compression ratio. However that big efficient engine weighs as much as my entire car.

 

[Susquatch]

Diesel has about 10% more energy per gallon, and a Diesel engine is an inherently more efficient engine with twice the compression ratio. However that big efficient engine weighs as much as my entire car.

The main advantage of diesel engines is no pumping losses.

 

[Mike R]

The main advantage of diesel engines is no pumping losses.

I think you mean no losses due to the throttle at anything less than full throttle, all internal combustion engines have pumping losses.

 

[Tom O]

I think they made more miles per gallon just by putting bigger tires on vehicles at the factory. When I had my 58 Chev I had an accelerator pump fail and drove it like that for a while noticing the mileage increase as well as bit of a bog when accelerating

 

[jorogi]

Same horsepower 570-575

Trucks quote brake horsepower, cars quote maximum horsepower.
My truck has 600bhp, it'll put that out all day long. A Mustang can only do that for a few seconds, then you run out of room, a few minutes and the engine would self destruct. Duty cycle is probably 10%, maybe. Once you're up to speed you're probably only using 20-40 hp. Thats why my engine weighs 8000lbs and costs 6 figures.

 

[Susquatch]

I think you mean no losses due to the throttle at anything less than full throttle, all internal combustion engines have pumping losses.

Let's just say that it's an industry term. It has a very specific meaning to those who design engines which I did for a number of years.

In this case, we were talking about the fuel efficiency advantage of diesel over gasoline engines. One of their primary advantages is very low pumping losses - especially at the low engine speeds where fuel efficiency really matters. The car and light truck operator who is running at top rpm, where pumping losses are high for both, isn't thinking about fuel consumption.

 

[Hollow-Grind]

Trucks quote brake horsepower, cars quote maximum horsepower.
My truck has 600bhp, it'll put that out all day long. A Mustang can only do that for a few seconds, then you run out of room, a few minutes and the engine would self destruct. Duty cycle is probably 10%, maybe. Once you're up to speed you're probably only using 20-40 hp. Thats why my engine weighs 8000lbs and costs 6 figures.

Guess you have never been to a racetrack? As much as a non Ford lover I am I do not believe they all blow up in a few mins. Would be some pretty short road races…..

 

[Susquatch]

Guess you have never been to a racetrack? As much as a non Ford lover I am I do not believe they all blow up in a few mins. Would be some pretty short road races…..

I think it depends on the race type and the class. The engines in a rail running nitro and blowers doing the quarter mile don't last very long. The engines used in race cars doing circuit racing last much longer. But even the engine in the family hockey van racing between games, won't last like the big diesel in a semi.

 

[Hollow-Grind]

I think it depends on the race type and the class. The engines in a rail running nitro and blowers doing the quarter mile don't last very long. The engines used in race cars doing circuit racing last much longer. But even the engine in the family hockey van racing between games, won't last like the big diesel in a semi.

I know what you’re saying. My issue is someone stating a mustang will blow up at max hp in a few mins and that is completely untrue. A modern high hp car/truck can put out max hp all day long.

A heavy truck isn’t making/useing max hp once up to speed just like a car or truck so not sure the point of the statement either.

I’ve built 500 plus hp 12 valve Cummins, tons of 355 chev’s, boosted 4’s and 8’s and more. Just dislike inaccurate comments.

But yeah, nitro is rebuild every run at 5000hp. Plugs are melted.

 

[slow-poke]

Trucks quote brake horsepower, cars quote maximum horsepower.
My truck has 600bhp, it'll put that out all day long. A Mustang can only do that for a few seconds, then you run out of room, a few minutes and the engine would self destruct. Duty cycle is probably 10%, maybe. Once you're up to speed you're probably only using 20-40 hp. Thats why my engine weighs 8000lbs and costs 6 figures.

Seconds, not even close.

You should watch Ford vs, Ferarri, Ford ran their big blocks at 6000-8000 RPM for > 24 hours during Le Mans. They torture tested them on the dyno for days on end to determine the failure points and then fixed them.

BTW the new corvette when tested at maximum speed and was slower than the GT40s 213MPH recorded during LeMans race in 1965 That's just embarrassing. Since then GM made a special closed course version that's a bit faster, however the new FORD GT holds the top speed record at over 300MPH and street versions at 282MPH

One of me engines was built by a fellow that races a top alcohol dragster he has won that class at the big NHRA races southside. I asked Ken how long will my engine last? He stated I will guarantee it will run at 8000RPM continuously for at least one hour more likely considerably longer, I would leave at 7500 RPM and shift when it hit the end of the tach. That engine never came apart and still lives today. Factory stock block, crankshaft and rods, just meticulously machined.

 

[6.5 Fan]

You should watch Ford vs, Ferarri, Ford ran their big blocks at 6000-8000 RPM for > 24 hours during Le Mans. They torture tested them on the dyno for days on end to determine the failure points and then fixed them.

I guess some engineers should watch that movie before they launch the next big screwup.

 

[slow-poke]

You should watch Ford vs, Ferarri, Ford ran their big blocks at 6000-8000 RPM for > 24 hours during Le Mans. They torture tested them on the dyno for days on end to determine the failure points and then fixed them.

I guess some engineers should watch that movie before they launch the next big screwup.

I would bet it's not so much the engineers, but the accountants. "Do we really need these expensive 200,000 psi rod bolts, lets use 100,000 psi bolts like we used in the Vega we had an acceptable failure rate with those in the past"

 

[Susquatch]

I would bet it's not so much the engineers, but the accountants. "Do we really need these expensive 200,000 psi rod bolts, lets use 100,000 psi bolts like we used in the Vega we had an acceptable failure rate with those in the past"

As "one of those engineers", I can say with considerable authority that you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! It is always about money and time not laziness or ineptitude. If you let an engineer do the job without constraints, he/she will ALWAYS overdesign it so it cannot fail. They will test and retest in the computer, on the dyno, at the proving grounds, and in field trials till they know for certain that its a good design. Nonetheless, the finance guys are always looking to cut costs, the purchasing guys are looking for better deals, the manufacturing people are looking for easier ways to build it, and the sales guys are pushing for early sales. Yet it's the engineers who get a bad rap from everyone. I think it's important to know that they like to be proud of what they do, not embarrassed. If you give them the time and money to do it right, they can make miracles. The engine design groups at the OEM's are also a well balanced team of seasoned experienced individuals who love what they do. It's a conveted job filled with passionate people. I am very proud to have been one of them for a portion of my career.

 

[slow-poke]

As "one of those engineers", I can say with considerable authority that you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! It is always about money and time not laziness or ineptitude. If you let an engineer do the job without constraints, he/she will ALWAYS overdesign it so it cannot fail. They will test and retest in the computer, on the dyno, at the proving grounds, and in field trials till they know for certain that its a good design. Nonetheless, the finance guys are always looking to cut costs, the purchasing guys are looking for better deals, the manufacturing people are looking for easier ways to build it, and the sales guys are pushing for early sales. Yet it's the engineers who get a bad rap from everyone. I think it's important to know that they like to be proud of what they do, not embarrassed. If you give them the time and money to do it right, they can make miracles. The engine design groups at the OEM's are also a well balanced team of seasoned experienced individuals who love what they do. It's a conveted job filled with passionate people. I am very proud to have been one of them for a portion of my career.

Completely agree and echos my experience exactly. I was involved with a startup three guys in a basement to a Best product in the world company and because our products had really high margins 10:1 choosing the best components vs. something cheaper was never a consideration we designed it the best we possibly could and everyone in the company was on the same page. The accountants did the accounting and were never allowed to meddle with the cost of production. It was a really fun and fulfilling experience, I had the best job in the world and often thought I'm being paid for this? There is nothing I would rather do.