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brake line flare
- Thread starter PeterT
- Start date
It does take a lot of force with a flaring tool too. Just an observation, I think the top of the die should mimic the shape (bellmouth) of the flare so the pipe has somewhere to go as is being formed. Like in this pic.
Will the nut still slide on after the pipe is bent? If so there's a lot more clearace between nut and pipe than on an automotive brake or fuel line. I've spewed a few choice words when I made a perfect flare and bend only to find that I forgot to install the flare nut first. DOH!
Will the nut still slide on after the pipe is bent? If so there's a lot more clearace between nut and pipe than on an automotive brake or fuel line. I've spewed a few choice words when I made a perfect flare and bend only to find that I forgot to install the flare nut first. DOH!
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The tool in your first pic can do SAE double flares and ISO metric flares in one operation so it takes a lot of force. I have one that does that but has a hand operared hydraulic pump to do the hard work like this one but made by Kent Moore.
https://www.amazon.ca/Mastercool-72...ocphy=9001414&hvtargid=pla-523815633999&psc=1
https://www.amazon.ca/Mastercool-72...ocphy=9001414&hvtargid=pla-523815633999&psc=1
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The handle in your first pic is to do the flaring, the short handle on the tool is just to clamp the pipe into the tool.
I think the top of the die should mimic the shape (bellmouth) of the flare so the pipe has somewhere to go as is being formed.
I agree. That's the next step I'll tune up now. This was more of a mockup test. Its easy for me to chamfer the nut say 45 in the lathe so it should ideally fit 45 on the flare. But the end of flare should be flat to contact the counter bore in head (thin washer actually). The induction tube cant leak air in or it will mess fuel mixture but its not like a high pressure hydraulic seal. Ditto on the exhaust.
Will the nut still slide on after the pipe is bent? If so there's a lot more clearace between nut and pipe than on an automotive brake or fuel line.
Good eye. That nut no, the correct ID bore nut yes it will go round the bend. That was my threading practice. I have precious little wall thickness between bottom of thread V and ID. One end of tube has a flare, the other not so the nut slides on. The induction tube might be too tricky to bend in one shot, several 3D bends on both ends to connect the manifold on rear center of engine. I might use the aluminum Versatube for that & make a tasteful splice. Either a rubber sleeve or maybe thin wall aluminum JB welded to hide the joint. The base of tube sits in an O-ring seal so can pop out.
I foresee many hours of fiddle 'fun'.
But I have to nail down the tube flare before I can finalize the head ports.
I agree. That's the next step I'll tune up now. This was more of a mockup test. Its easy for me to chamfer the nut say 45 in the lathe so it should ideally fit 45 on the flare. But the end of flare should be flat to contact the counter bore in head (thin washer actually). The induction tube cant leak air in or it will mess fuel mixture but its not like a high pressure hydraulic seal. Ditto on the exhaust.
Will the nut still slide on after the pipe is bent? If so there's a lot more clearace between nut and pipe than on an automotive brake or fuel line.
Good eye. That nut no, the correct ID bore nut yes it will go round the bend. That was my threading practice. I have precious little wall thickness between bottom of thread V and ID. One end of tube has a flare, the other not so the nut slides on. The induction tube might be too tricky to bend in one shot, several 3D bends on both ends to connect the manifold on rear center of engine. I might use the aluminum Versatube for that & make a tasteful splice. Either a rubber sleeve or maybe thin wall aluminum JB welded to hide the joint. The base of tube sits in an O-ring seal so can pop out.
I foresee many hours of fiddle 'fun'.
But I have to nail down the tube flare before I can finalize the head ports.
How about a ball bearing of the correct size welded to a piece of round stock? Hold it in a collet in the mill, clamp your flaring fixture in your mill vice and using lots of lube and slow rpm let the ball bearing form the flare while you push down on the quill?
The bearing ball is exactly what I was thinking Rudy, either on a the end of a tap-tap forming tool or to be driven in like on tailstock. Sorry no welder but I might get away with silver solder.
Chucking this class of tubing in a lathe is kind of weird. I guess the maleable, ductile properties that lend itself to bending & flaring also means its easy to squash it in the chuck. A collet held it better but Like I was mentioning, actually takes substantial force to plunge form. The aluminum Versatube isnt so bad but the copper based brake line is kind of tough stuff in this mode. My original plan was to make the flare, then bend the tube. Unfortunately the bend radius is quite tight & ideally goes right up to the flare so the holding clamp & slip shoe kind of need some extra room. So its actually preferable (if I can) to make the bend(s) then apply the flare. Those 'plier' style of benders look interesting, I wasn't aware of them.
In both cases of brake line & Versatube, are wound in a coil for shipping. Kind of a bugger to straighten out without introducing kinks. Maybe there is some kind of roller to reveres the coil. Fortunately my segments are short. the exhaust is maybe a 2" lineal length in a quarter arc. The inlet header tube is probably 6" with funky 3D bends. That's going to be fun.
Chucking this class of tubing in a lathe is kind of weird. I guess the maleable, ductile properties that lend itself to bending & flaring also means its easy to squash it in the chuck. A collet held it better but Like I was mentioning, actually takes substantial force to plunge form. The aluminum Versatube isnt so bad but the copper based brake line is kind of tough stuff in this mode. My original plan was to make the flare, then bend the tube. Unfortunately the bend radius is quite tight & ideally goes right up to the flare so the holding clamp & slip shoe kind of need some extra room. So its actually preferable (if I can) to make the bend(s) then apply the flare. Those 'plier' style of benders look interesting, I wasn't aware of them.
In both cases of brake line & Versatube, are wound in a coil for shipping. Kind of a bugger to straighten out without introducing kinks. Maybe there is some kind of roller to reveres the coil. Fortunately my segments are short. the exhaust is maybe a 2" lineal length in a quarter arc. The inlet header tube is probably 6" with funky 3D bends. That's going to be fun.
I improved my assembly & got some good preliminary results. I kept the basics of the 0.25" thick forming plate so I can position it practically at the end of an existing tubing bend. I made the chamfer a bit wider face & smoothed the bore/transition a bit. I then made a small frame to push in a 45-deg forming plug. The center bolt is 10-32. Flaring the aluminium was quite effortless & controlled. I can feel the dead end quite reliably. The plate gripped the tubing well with just a hint of marring & OD reduction. In this example I left more tubing material prod than necessary so the flange was correspondingly larger OD at 0.415", but it formed well without splitting. So I think I have a workable solution just controlling the material stick-out. Time to make nuts & see how they seat on the flange.
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Looks good Peter!
Have a look at the video for ideas on how to make a tubing straightener, or you could always buy one.
Have a look at the video for ideas on how to make a tubing straightener, or you could always buy one.
Thanks John, didn't see that one.
I found $$ variations of this theme. Some hotrod forum I was on was suggesting you need some means of adjusting the wheel tension & also rotating the tubing axis for best results, but I think he was doing stainless or some tougher material. I have been collecting plan ideas for wire/stock bending that is quite similar principle of bearings & dies. Maybe I should see how the 2 might integrate.
I found $$ variations of this theme. Some hotrod forum I was on was suggesting you need some means of adjusting the wheel tension & also rotating the tubing axis for best results, but I think he was doing stainless or some tougher material. I have been collecting plan ideas for wire/stock bending that is quite similar principle of bearings & dies. Maybe I should see how the 2 might integrate.
The Eastwood one is size specific but I think an adjustable one could be made using 4 pieces of angle iron and the rollers wouldnt be too hard to do either
I'm using 5/16 diamter. I noticed Eastwoods come in 3/16, 1/4, 3/8. But I think I can replicate the principle.
I tried my jig on the copper content brake line & it works just as well. What I'm finding is the stickout amount and the edge being dressed exactly parallel to the forming plate makes a big difference. If I get that part right, the flaring makes very consistent shapes. OD within a couple thou & minimal distortion. So this aspect looks good. I can count on results for the matching head ports.
I tried my jig on the copper content brake line & it works just as well. What I'm finding is the stickout amount and the edge being dressed exactly parallel to the forming plate makes a big difference. If I get that part right, the flaring makes very consistent shapes. OD within a couple thou & minimal distortion. So this aspect looks good. I can count on results for the matching head ports.
Well the nut turned out like it was supposed to design wise. It has a matching 45-deg ID bevel to mate/seal the 45 deg tube flare angle. It also goes around the bend radius made by the tubing bender. I'm kind of a rookie threader but slowly getting the hang of it. For now pretend this plate is the cylinder head, haha.
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If I cant make the funky 3D bent induction tubes in one go (likely) I tested a bailout option that would be mating 2 individual segments. I machined an aluminum coupler & used JB weld on the joint. I'm not even sure I need it rigid though. Maybe I can find some thick heat shrink tube or thin walled silicone tube & bond it. It wont see any appreciable heat.
