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Big KBC Knee Mill - Kitchener - $6000

We have all been circling around this so let me say *again* If the KBC machine is as advertised - very low use, no broken or dysfunctional aspects - including back gear and down feed - then 6000$ is not a 'bad ask price'.

I give weight to Bridgeport name, but I also know that Hartford were *better built* than an original BP. Premium Meahanite castings, heavier construction and fully compatible bearings and belts. The same goes for First mills, especially those manufactured before (approx) 2000... Since around that time First has been focusing primarily on CNC machines, and I think the quality peaked before 2000.

That said, all the machines pictured, if not abused are fully capable machines. If price is your overriding concern, then saving every hundred dollars is paramount, then 'fine'. In the hobby sense, I think an overbuy for getting a less trouble free machine makes good sense -- especially for the guys that don't have over 30 years machining experience and know what to be wary of. Buy it once and be content.

It is always good to be wary of any purchase, and the extra 1000$ might be for a good story, but if it really only got hobby use, and it is that clean and good, the extra is worth it.

@Tom Kitta: I fail to see why other machines are somehow bad

I absolutely avoid resellers of any stripe: not only do they repaint the machine and jack up the price, but they know how to hide deficits line worn X leade screws by tightening the backlash, and refuse to let you use an indicator to check for 'banana' ways. Been there. Walked away. Walked away from auctions for the same reason. So if a guy has 5 repainted machines for sale, I run away.

I did buy a mill and a SG from a headhunter, though. I had him scout machines for me, and he bought them on my call request, went and examined them and bought. He had no skill to hide anything, and he didn't have the patience for fraud. I did pay premuim used price (I set the price), but I feel satisfied with those purchases.
 
Random bit of story/info...the guy I bought my CX-601 from had just bought a full size Bridgeport. We briefly chatted and he showed me the lead screws that came out of it....they looked like 60 degree V threads in the middle instead of acme thread like they were on the ends, they were that worn down.

This is why I have no problem with a newer clone, I don't want a clapped out project mill like that.
 
There are a lot of machines out there that were never lubricated and sold when clapped out. You at least know what to look for.

That being said, if room is not a problem a clapped out BP or BP clone will still outperform a tiny mill like an RF30 or 35, if a guy knows how to take care of it, and compensate for the backlash ;)
 
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When I sold my BP, it went with a list of everything good and bad that I knew about it including those things that I was told about when I bought it. That's how I would like to be treated, so that's how I treated the buyer.

Somebody on here (I think it was @Dabbler, but he can deny it if he wants..... ) once asked me how I would feel taking advantage of an old lady who just lost her hubby when buying his machine. Ya, I don't want to be that guy.

Another member pointed out that a great deal on Ali is still a great deal for the seller. Those are also good words. I love a great deal as well as anyone, but I sleep a lot better knowing both sides are happy with it.
 
If I had the space I would have given a serious look. I have seen the new one KBC and am very impressed how tight yet fluid the action is.

I've seen a few Bridgeports (rebuilt and service) and IMHO seemed to have more play and sticker action.
 
Dabbler said:
I give weight to Bridgeport name, but I also know that Hartford were *better built* than an original BP. Premium Meahanite castings, heavier construction and fully compatible bearings and belts.
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This is a good point. My Hartford had the Mehanite ( I called it undrillobillium), but it didn't have the same timing belt or gears. It had wider ones with bigger teeth. That made sense given that it came with a bigger motor too.

Still lovin my Harty!
 
So I have a question.

As @Tom Kitta pointed out, one of those reseller machines has a 40 taper spindle. I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that this is a better stronger design.

But 40 taper adapters come with a sky high price tag. I would not want to buy a huge set of them!

I know this is a loaded question, but dollar for dollar are they really worth it vs an R8 for a hobbyist shop?
 
Susquatch said:
So I have a question.

As @Tom Kitta pointed out, one of those reseller machines has a 40 taper spindle. I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that this is a better stronger design.

But 40 taper adapters come with a sky high price tag. I would not want to buy a huge set of them!

I know this is a loaded question, but dollar for dollar are they really worth it vs an R8 for a hobbyist shop?
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I have a 40 taper to ER32 that I use 90% of the time. Cost me like $50 CAD like 5 or 6 years ago. So its not exactly breaking the bank.

As for loaded question all depends on price. If I have two "identical" machines X and Y and Y has 40 taper I also know Y is like 50% heavier machine, with thicker spindle and most likely 5hp motor (not that I care, way too much power). Also most 40 tapers have larger table, by few inches.

So given all these plus, heavier machine, larger spindle, more rigid 40 taper vs R8, more Z space etc. etc. etc. if otherwise all is the same I definitely pick 40 taper.

How much more? I say at least 10% more $.

Of course this is my personal opinion.
 
Tom Kitta said:
I actually do not care too much about paint. We do not machine with paint ;)
There are a LOT of machines in that area. A LOT. So you can pick and choose.

I fail to see why other machines are somehow bad - if I had a choice between older in great shape BP and this machine while BP was 1000 cheaper or more, its a no brainer - I go for BP. Come on, who would pick a knock off over the real thing - if all else is the same?

Maybe I am old fashioned, but if two machines with same use are out there and one of them is brand name, I go for brand name. It certainly will hold value better.

Again, its about ability to machine. If two are identical in all respects, and say same brand - I would pick ... cheaper one.
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I guess my thought was, and this comes from someone that is way too far from almost any major purchase...... I have never seen original good condition paint on a clapped out machine, but I have seen lots of crap with fresh paint. Not saying that this is the case here, but if I am making the choice on which direction to drive, I am going to the one that I feel I trust to be in good shape rather than hoping for the best. He might be selling great mills, but if I am looking to save some money, I'll paint it myself.
Besides, I have a horizontal mill with a 40 taper......:D
 
140mower said:
I guess my thought was, and this comes from someone that is way too far from almost any major purchase...... I have never seen original good condition paint on a clapped out machine, but I have seen lots of crap with fresh paint. Not saying that this is the case here, but if I am making the choice on which direction to drive, I am going to the one that I feel I trust to be in good shape rather than hoping for the best. He might be selling great mills, but if I am looking to save some money, I'll paint it myself.
Besides, I have a horizontal mill with a 40 taper......:D
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Me to - I have two machines with 40 taper, one is horizontal. To be honest I use BP style most of the time.
 
Tom Kitta said:
I have a 40 taper to ER32 that I use 90% of the time. Cost me like $50 CAD like 5 or 6 years ago. So its not exactly breaking the bank.

As for loaded question all depends on price. If I have two "identical" machines X and Y and Y has 40 taper I also know Y is like 50% heavier machine, with thicker spindle and most likely 5hp motor (not that I care, way too much power). Also most 40 tapers have larger table, by few inches.

So given all these plus, heavier machine, larger spindle, more rigid 40 taper vs R8, more Z space etc. etc. etc. if otherwise all is the same I definitely pick 40 taper.

How much more? I say at least 10% more $.

Of course this is my personal opinion.
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All makes sense Tom. Just to clarify, I understand it that you don't have a big set of 40 taper holders. You have one 40 Taper to ER32 adapter and a set of ER32 Collets instead. But you do like the bigger machine that a 40 Taper comes with.

If that is what you meant, that makes good sense.
 
I like the R8 collets that that I can pick up for $8ea (at BB).
Use your money for unique tooling that does more.
 
That is an American made XLO.
The Canadian made version were ‘Ex-Cell-O’.
I have heard from people that the American Version was a light build.

You are best to take Sasquatch’s Checklist and have a good look at it.
The price seems pretty LOW for a ‘Full Size’ knee mill with the extras.
 
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