Best type of face mill?

[Megar arc 5040dd]

I am wondering what the best type of all round face mill would be for a first time purchase? I have noticed there are several different styles of inserts used and am not sure what to choose. If you could have just one face mill to start with what style and size would you choose? I know a lot has to do with what you need it for and sadly I don't have a good answer. something that you can get inserts for both steel and aluminum. My Mill came with an arbor for one so I just need to find a head for it. I have never used a face mill before so any help for a first purchase would be great.

 

[Chipper5783]

Since you want to fit the arbor you have - what size is it (the round section where the face mill mounts)? Also, what style mount is it (MT, R8, #40 etc)? Example, don’t try putting an 8” face mill on an R8. Also, what mill do you plan to run it on (how much power, how robust is your machine)?

I suggest getting one that will do 90 degree corners. I have a couple styles of face mills, one has the square inserts tilted at 45 degrees - it works great for flat surfaces (and if you want a 45 edge), as the leading corners are protected (not as a quite an angle). Typically you’ll want to plane off a flat surface or a 90 step.

I like the APKT/APMT 1604 - lots of variety in the inserts, you can get a good positive rake so they cut nice. Inserts are expensive, but available from Ali - so cheap if you are not in a hurry.

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

Since you want to fit the arbor you have - what size is it (the round section where the face mill mounts)? Also, what style mount is it (MT, R8, #40 etc)? Example, don’t try putting an 8” face mill on an R8. Also, what mill do you plan to run it on (how much power, how robust is your machine)?

I suggest getting one that will do 90 degree corners. I have a couple styles of face mills, one has the square inserts tilted at 45 degrees - it works great for flat surfaces (and if you want a 45 edge), as the leading corners are protected (not as a quite an angle). Typically you’ll want to plane off a flat surface or a 90 step.

I like the APKT/APMT 1604 - lots of variety in the inserts, you can get a good positive rake so they cut nice. Inserts are expensive, but available from Ali - so cheap if you are not in a hurry.

The mill is a RF45 clone, the spindle is R8, and the arbor is 1".

 

[PeterT]

I'm using a (is it 2" or 2.5"? dia) 4-insert head using same inserts @Chipper5783 mentioned for R8 spindle. I'm very happy with it. I used it on my RF-45 & now on my BP clone. It was from the Sowa catalog, made in Taiwan, decent quality, but there are many out there. I have heard of the odd bad Chinese clones where the insert pockets were out of wack and/or the arbor was not setting the head properly & were basically a write off. So whoever you buy from, make sure there is a legit return policy. This looks like a picture where I was measuring my insert deviation. Also if I recall, the heads may vary in their key section dimensions even though there is supposed to be some standardization, so just be careful you don't buy a head that doesn't fit your arbor. Inserts are cheap on Ali. IMO avoid the ones with excessive nose radius thinking you will get a better finish, it may not work that way. It takes more power & rigidity. Nothing wrong with a sharper nose, it will make a good finish, just have to monitor feed. If you are zipping through crappy rusty surface, that's hard on any cutter. So I keep a dedicated set for dirty jobs. Aluminum face milling is pure joy, use the uncoated ones with recommended rake designed for aluminum cutting.

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

I'm using a (is it 2" or 2.5"? dia) 4-insert head using same inserts @Chipper5783 mentioned for R8 spindle. I'm very happy with it. I used it on my RF-45 & now on my BP clone. It was from the Sowa catalog, made in Taiwan, decent quality, but there are many out there. I have heard of the odd bad Chinese clones where the insert pockets were out of wack and/or the arbor was not setting the head properly & were basically a write off. So whoever you buy from, make sure there is a legit return policy. This looks like a picture where I was measuring my insert deviation. Also if I recall, the heads may vary in their key section dimensions even though there is supposed to be some standardization, so just be careful you don't buy a head that doesn't fit your arbor. Inserts are cheap on Ali. IMO avoid the ones with excessive nose radius thinking you will get a better finish, it may not work that way. It takes more power & rigidity. Nothing wrong with a sharper nose, it will make a good finish, just have to monitor feed. If you are zipping through crappy rusty surface, that's hard on any cutter. So I keep a dedicated set for dirty jobs. Aluminum face milling is pure joy, use the uncoated ones with recommended rake designed for aluminum cutting.

Is the 1" arbor an uncommon size? most of what I am finding in the 2" - 3" range has a 22mm arbor.

 

[Susquatch]

I have never used a face mill before so any help for a first purchase would be great.

Is the 1" arbor an uncommon size? most of what I am finding in the 2" - 3" range has a 22mm arbor.

I have the same ones Peter mentioned with the same inserts. Inserts are available for various metals including regular steel, stainless, and aluminium.

Yes, you can get 1" and even smaller. I believe my smallest is 3/4 inch and my biggest is 3". For this size insert they even sell a 3/8 endmill. I don't know how well such a small face mill would work though. I think I'd prefer a regular hss or carbide endmill for smaller sizes like 3/8 or even 1/2 inch. Note that this is accusize and they give our members a discount.

Edit - my smallest is 1".

https://accusizetools.com/en-us/collections/indexable-end-mills-face-milling-cutters.

Also note that facemills cannot plunge cut.

 

[JustaDB]

Is the 1" arbor an uncommon size? most of what I am finding in the 2" - 3" range has a 22mm arbor.

It's more old school. One inch can still be found, but it's more difficult. I have an R8 spindle w/ a 1" arbor and welded carbide cutters (one was broken off), tried to find a replacement 1" head on Ali, couldn't, ended up getting a new complete 22mm arbor face mill assembly w/ inserts instead.

 

[PeterT]

If I did it again I would consider an integrated (1-piece) arbor/head model like the Accusize offering. (Not endorsing the seller, just showing their pic). This eliminates a bolt together assembly which is probably better for rigidity, vibration, ultimately finish & total cost. There probably good reasons for shops to have separate cutting heads rather than replicating the arbor, but maybe less applicable to hobby shops. Mine sits permanently on the arbor anyways. And its the only one I have. Bigger area = more passes. I suspect the ones we see are predominantly metric which risks introducing another potential error - do they mean 1" as in 1.00" or is it 25mm & they are trying to be helpful with the math? Its inconsequential on the nominal head OD but can be a source of mismatch on the arbor key. Also, my RF-45 arbor was not the prettiest accessory. Putting a good quality head on a low quality arbor is generally not a good idea, especially for finishing/facing.

You also have to be very cognizant of the tilt & nod of your spindle relative to table/vise datum. It can work its way out of alignment too. Even if you had say a big 6" fly cutter that makes an exceptional surface, the large diameter magnifies any spindle alignment issues. The actual cut will be 'cupped' or faceted even though it looks shiny & uniform o the naked eye. That's not necessarily a flat surface, its a visually pleasing uniform surface. So for smaller machines with limited power or rigidity its more practical to make overlapping cuts with a smaller head. Even with a good end mill, you can make accurate surfaces this way because the misalignment is confined to the single pass.

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

could I turn the 1" arbor down to 22mm since I already own it or would this not be advisable? Every time I look at it I think it already has the R8 part so would be nice to be able to use it for something.

 

[Susquatch]

could I turn the 1" arbor down to 22mm since I already own it or would this not be advisable? Every time I look at it I think it already has the R8 part so would be nice to be able to use it for something.

Some can, and some can't. The setup is a critical one.

 

[Chipper5783]

If I did it again I would consider an integrated (1-piece) arbor/head model like the Accusize offering. (Not endorsing the seller, just showing their pic). This eliminates a bolt together assembly which is probably better for rigidity, vibration, ultimately finish & total cost. There probably good reasons for shops to have separate cutting heads rather than replicating the arbor, but maybe less applicable to hobby shops. Mine sits permanently on the arbor anyways. And its the only one I have. Bigger area = more passes. I suspect the ones we see are predominantly metric which risks introducing another potential error - do they mean 1" as in 1.00" or is it 25mm & they are trying to be helpful with the math? Its inconsequential on the nominal head OD but can be a source of mismatch on the arbor key. Also, my RF-45 arbor was not the prettiest accessory. Putting a good quality head on a low quality arbor is generally not a good idea, especially for finishing/facing.

You also have to be very cognizant of the tilt & nod of your spindle relative to table/vise datum. It can work its way out of alignment too. Even if you had say a big 6" fly cutter that makes an exceptional surface, the large diameter magnifies any spindle alignment issues. The actual cut will be 'cupped' or faceted even though it looks shiny & uniform o the naked eye. That's not necessarily a flat surface, its a visually pleasing uniform surface. So for smaller machines with limited power or rigidity its more practical to make overlapping cuts with a smaller head. Even with a good end mill, you can make accurate surfaces this way because the misalignment is confined to the single pass.

View attachment 51702

Re-using that old arbor might cost more than replacing it (i.e. purchasing a complete assembly - whether integral or two piece). Get the face mill you want/need. Keep the arbor for some special project.

 

[Jswain]

could I turn the 1" arbor down to 22mm since I already own it or would this not be advisable? Every time I look at it I think it already has the R8 part so would be nice to be able to use it for something.

Make a fly cutter that you can bolt onto your existing r8 shank with the 1" arbor

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

Make a fly cutter that you can bolt onto your existing r8 shank with the 1" arbor

That is a great idea!! I will do that. I can't believe I never thought of that. Maybe I will go fancy and make one that can use inserts.

 

[PeterT]

John.C made a good one for reference but there are others if you do a search

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/project-flycutter.6671]

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

John.C made a good one for reference but there are others if you do a search

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/project-flycutter.6671/[/EMBED]

That link just brings me to "whoops that page could not be found"

 

[PeterT]

ya its fighting with me. The first time I pasted it embedded the (big!) pictures so I tried to delete the [EMBED] portion of text. Now its not working at all.

Do a search under 'fly cutter' with author = John Conroy[/EMBED]

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

That's a cool build. Bigger than I would want to run on my machine but I like the general idea.

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

If I did it again I would consider an integrated (1-piece) arbor/head model like the Accusize offering. (Not endorsing the seller, just showing their pic). This eliminates a bolt together assembly which is probably better for rigidity, vibration, ultimately finish & total cost. There probably good reasons for shops to have separate cutting heads rather than replicating the arbor, but maybe less applicable to hobby shops. Mine sits permanently on the arbor anyways. And its the only one I have. Bigger area = more passes. I suspect the ones we see are predominantly metric which risks introducing another potential error - do they mean 1" as in 1.00" or is it 25mm & they are trying to be helpful with the math? Its inconsequential on the nominal head OD but can be a source of mismatch on the arbor key. Also, my RF-45 arbor was not the prettiest accessory. Putting a good quality head on a low quality arbor is generally not a good idea, especially for finishing/facing.

You also have to be very cognizant of the tilt & nod of your spindle relative to table/vise datum. It can work its way out of alignment too. Even if you had say a big 6" fly cutter that makes an exceptional surface, the large diameter magnifies any spindle alignment issues. The actual cut will be 'cupped' or faceted even though it looks shiny & uniform o the naked eye. That's not necessarily a flat surface, its a visually pleasing uniform surface. So for smaller machines with limited power or rigidity its more practical to make overlapping cuts with a smaller head. Even with a good end mill, you can make accurate surfaces this way because the misalignment is confined to the single pass.

View attachment 51702

Is 6 cutters to many cutters for a RF45 type mill? Is less cutters better or more cutters?

 

[Chipper5783]

You’d want to think about the diameter. Obviously you can run a single cutter (called a fly cutter). More cutters allows you a higher feed rate for the same chip load per tooth, which takes more power - particularly if the tool is a larger diameter. It is kind of a balance / trade off.

Fly cutters are awesome, they totally have their place. Strictly speaking you won’t remove the material as fast - but is that a problem?

 

[Megar arc 5040dd]

You’d want to think about the diameter. Obviously you can run a single cutter (called a fly cutter). More cutters allows you a higher feed rate for the same chip load per tooth, which takes more power - particularly if the tool is a larger diameter. It is kind of a balance / trade off.

Fly cutters are awesome, they totally have their place. Strictly speaking you won’t remove the material as fast - but is that a problem?

I am looking at this in either the 2" or 2 1/2" size https://www.amazon.ca/Accusize-Inde...-0028-6908/dp/B073ZKH6FT?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1 but they come with 6 cutters so I was wondering it that is to many for a cutter that size in an RF45 type mill.