before the chips fly

[trlvn]

There are only 2 mounting holes in the lathe base; one at each end.

Your Grizzly is almost identical to my Craftex CX706 but mine has 3 mounting bolt locations:

They are still all in line with the spindle but you can shim under the appropriate corners and then torque down the machine.

BTW, I have not got around to levelling my lathe. [The crowd gasps!] The main reason is that I haven't noticed any problems with alignment other than tailstock alignment. The other thing is that I knew the lathe would need an oil change and it is easier to do with the lathe unbolted. So I planned to look at levelling after the oil change...and I'm going to do the oil change Real Soon Now.

The other issue is that I don't like how the tailstock lock works. The tailstock doesn't lock all that tightly in certain positions on the bed. Sometimes when drilling steel, advancing the tailstock quill pushes the tailstock backwards rather than the drill advancing into the work. There must be some variation in the thickness of the bed and the tailstock has an exceedingly small travel in the lock mechanism. I think I might be able to remake one eccentric shaft for the tailstock and increase the clamping range. It will likely be easier to do this job with the lathe unbolted.

Craig

 

[Susquatch]

The other issue is that I don't like how the tailstock lock works. The tailstock doesn't lock all that tightly in certain positions on the bed. Sometimes when drilling steel, advancing the tailstock quill pushes the tailstock backwards rather than the drill advancing into the work. There must be some variation in the thickness of the bed and the tailstock has an exceedingly small travel in the lock mechanism. I think I might be able to remake one eccentric shaft for the tailstock and increase the clamping range. It will likely be easier to do this job with the lathe unbolted.

I assume that you know that the initial setting of the eccentric determines how much force can be applied to hold the tailstock in place..... Its almost always best to have it set such that over centre is almost but not quite possible.

FWIW, I am not shocked that your lathe has never been levelled. But I figured you were just waiting for me to get off my A$$ and finish my levelling bar design..... Ya, that's it! It's my fault! Feel better now?

 

[phaxtris]

Why not just have at it ? Start making chips now!

Worry about the bed being level and the tailstock being perfectly aligned later, after you have made a few little simple projects.

I think it's more important to keep the momentum/enthusiasm up when someone is first learning (anything) than to get bogged down with the little inconsequential details...a guys first projects are not going to be perfect anyways, and for many more reasons than a slight twist in the bed....so have at it, make chips, enjoy your new machine

 

[little ol' e]

Why not just have at it ? Start making chips now!

Worry about the bed being level and the tailstock being perfectly aligned later, after you have made a few little simple projects.

Finally, first piece you are going to make is a height gauge specifically for your lathe to set your tooling, make life easy. Sigh... a Joe Pie trick his video does explains it well.

I like the way you guys think!

For reference, here's a pic of the lathe and stand at it's old home; it seemed stable there:

I think its more than stable enough to get started. Nice little lathe to have some fun with, everything else will fall into place after some experience with it.
Enjoy it !

 

[YotaBota]

I think @Dabbler has a good plan with the plywood, mind you after taxes a sheet of 3/4 can be $100 but split it length wise and glued together gives you a 1.5" thick top 8' long. Another option is to find an old solid wood door or desktop they work great as well. Then if you do decide to build a stand you already have the top.
I had my SM9 on a HD 9 drawer work bench with a butcher block top, wasn't cheap but it worked well for me.
As @phaxtris says, most of the stuff you build at the start will probably only be a few inches long so unless you're doing something precise you won't even notice a bit of twist.
Make something and see how it goes, this way you'll have time to figure out what you want/need for a bench.

 

[curmudgeon]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I've read enough to sweat the small stuff and am so inexperienced that I sometimes miss the (obvious to you) big stuff. Life is full of compromises, so here's the issues I'll address in round 1:

@curmudgeon
It is not wide enough to support the tail of your late (that can be overcome)
It looks like flimsy sheet metal, so you will be chasing lathe twist in such a small lathe.
Another is to widen the spacer between the cabinets to better support the footprint.

@curmudgeon
There are some cool levelling kits available today... Why not make a levelling Cradle for each cabinet with levelling screws or even levelling vibration pads at each corner?

Why not just have at it ? Start making chips now!

I have a left over pieces of 1" plywood large enough for 2 pieces, each as large as the chip tray - I'll glue and screw them together for a more solid top. Since the table top will not be perfectly flat, I want it to twist to conform to the lathe base; not the other way around. There shouldn't be a problem with 2" of plywood? Thanks @Dabbler

I have a pile of aluminum deck railing end posts (2 1/4" square) with gusseted end plates for surface mounting on a deck (yup, not to code anymore). I'll cut down 4 of them for legs, and bolt them upside down near the corners of the plywood bench top. Hopefully I can find enough connectors to stiffen the legs using the old deck top railing as rails on the sides and the back about 6" above the ground. I think this will be much stiffer than the current setup while leaving sufficient flex in the stand to not twist the lathe base.

I had contemplated the VEVOR leveling casters; a few $ less expensive at VEVOR's website. But, am now leaning towards these Homend GD-60F Plate Mounted Leveling Caster; preferring the single mounting stud over the plate with 4 mounting holes. I think I'll come to appreciate the casters over time - thanks @Susquatch

This shouldn't delay chips by more than a few days. Thanks @phaxtris

The Craftex steel stand will sit freely under the bench for now, providing some storage until I know better what I want.

One day I'll be able to tig the aluminum rails to the posts and can add any extra triangulation needed.

@curmudgeon I have a few thoughts on the stand
Obviously I'm leaning toward a redesign solution, but that's not for everybody, and requires welder and other metalworking equipment.

I'll probably end of there sooner or later...

I find it odd that there are only two bolts holding the lathe to the stands and nothing holding the cabinet to the floor, but it is what it is.

The red dots mark the 2 mounting holes in the base. The PO increased the spacing between the Craftex stand columns so that the factory welded bolts in the stand would line up with the Grizzly lathe - for the effort of 2 additional holes and the cost of 2 extra nuts and washers, he could have had better support.

You say you don't mind some extra height. Why not make a levelling Cradle for each cabinet with levelling screws or even levelling vibration pads at each corner?

That was my original thought, extending the cradles a bit forward to stub my toe on and quite a bit backwards to reduce front-to-back wobble - going with 4, wider spaced legs should accomplish the same objective.

Your Grizzly is almost identical to my Craftex CX706 but mine has 3 mounting bolt locations:

View attachment 27878
They are still all in line with the spindle but you can shim under the appropriate corners and then torque down the machine.

Looks like that would fit my stand better than the Grizzly G0602 does. My left pedestal does have the 2 holes with welded nuts.

I think it's more important to keep the momentum/enthusiasm up when someone is first learning (anything) than to get bogged down with the little inconsequential details...a guys first projects are not going to be perfect anyways, and for many more reasons than a slight twist in the bed....so have at it, make chips, enjoy your new machine

Good advice!

I think its more than stable enough to get started. Nice little lathe to have some fun with, everything else will fall into place after some experience with it.
Enjoy it !

Ok, no more catastrophizing....

Make something and see how it goes, this way you'll have time to figure out what you want/need for a bench.

More good advice!

Thanks all, I appreciate your advice and support.
-Steve

 

[DavidR8]

One minor bit of advice on insert tooling @curmudgeon
I have a set of import tool holders and associated inserts. The tool holder are generally OK but the inserts are about as durable as crackers. I splurged and bought a brand name tool holder and inserts and noticed a really big difference in cut quality and durability.
I can't seem to access my KBC acount at the moment or I'd give you part numbers.

 

[Susquatch]

I can't seem to access my KBC acount at the moment or I'd give you part numbers.

I think lots of members would appreciate that info after you get access to your account.

 

[little ol' e]

I think lots of members would appreciate that info after you get access to your account.

Maybe this will help some,

If your just doing this as a hobby then perhaps the tooling I would suggest will be over budget. However, in the long run... I feel as thou most guys will see a return on the investment with Iscar lathe tooling.
If your just machining mild steel, HRS and aluminum the 8150,8250 and the 8350 insert grades will work really well for you.
You can choose the insert geometry that works for you in whatever cutting conditions you are attempting, be it interrupted cutting, roughing, and finishing.

 

[Susquatch]

Maybe this will help some,

The nice thing about @David_R8 s offer is that he said he would provide KBC Tools part numbers for the inserts and the insert holder.

I think many hobbiests are intimidated by the plethora of brands, styles, coatings, applications, sizes, and tip geometries out there. Even worse, how do you pick a good holder for it / them.

The guys who do a lot of machining, seem to have their favorite brands and styles and speak very highly of them. But folks like me go cross-eyed reading their advice.

At the same time, there are a bazillion different all-purpose beginner sets out there that do everything from tie your shoes to cutting the grass. They look awesome and we get sucked into buying them. Sometimes two or four of the tools in the set work for us and we use them. The rest are just wasted. Then we have trouble finding replacement inserts - which is gunna happen cuz they are crap and as @David_R8 says, they chip and break and and and and.....

At some point, we decide we need SOMETHING better. But we didn't learn squatt from our beginner sets and a whole new learning starts BUT because of our first experience we are intimidated and don't want to Fk up again.

Of course, we desperately want advice from guys like you. What more could we ask? Well, it's not so simple. The guys who actually know what they are talking about think it is though.

I think the inserts you show look awesome. But which ones? Where do I get them? What do they cost? What speeds/feeds do they like? What about Cast Iron, Aluminium, Brass, hard steel, stainless, soft steel, etc etc etc. And what holders do I need, what is their part number and where do I get them?

It's no wonder I like HSS.

Edit - hey, when I read my note above, it sounds ungrateful and critical. THAT WAS NOT MY INTENT. I apologize if you took it that way.

I have book marked your recommendation so it really is appreciated. I have also copied it to the inserts thread I started a while ago.

 

[Former Member]

FYI some of the tool holders that KBC carries come from the same source as Accusize. That said, the holders are good (and match standard spec's) so no worries there. Inserts can be purchased from any source as long as they match spec of the holder you are good. Now you can match whatever insert your budget/quality requires.

 

[Former Member]

The nice thing about @David_R8 s offer is that he said he would provide KBC Tools part numbers for the inserts and the insert holder.

I think many hobbiests are intimidated by the plethora of brands, styles, coatings, applications, sizes, and tip geometries out there. Even worse, how do you pick a good holder for it / them.

The guys who do a lot of machining, seem to have their favorite brands and styles and speak very highly of them. But folks like me go cross-eyed reading their advice.

At the same time, there are a bazillion different all-purpose beginner sets out there that do everything from tie your shoes to cutting the grass. They look awesome and we get sucked into buying them. Sometimes two or four of the tools in the set work for us and we use them. The rest are just wasted. Then we have trouble finding replacement inserts - which is gunna happen cuz they are crap and as @David_R8 says, they chip and break and and and and.....

At some point, we decide we need SOMETHING better. But we didn't learn squatt from our beginner sets and a whole new learning starts BUT because of our first experience we are intimidated and don't want to Fk up again.

Of course, we desperately want advice from guys like you. What more could we ask? Well, it's not so simple. The guys who actually know what they are talking about think it is though.

I think the inserts you show look awesome. But which ones? Where do I get them? What do they cost? What speeds/feeds do they like? What about Cast Iron, Aluminium, Brass, hard steel, stainless, soft steel, etc etc etc. And what holders do I need, what is their part number and where do I get them?

It's no wonder I like HSS.

Three simple things to remember.

1. I find with inserts you have flexibility of speeds and feeds.

2. Not sure on what material you are cutting or don't want to have too many options always go uncoated. Simple guide: Coated ones are generally for steels only.

3. Each Insert holder comes with a number, this specially tells you size and shape of the insert. Stick with that number lets you select for the application.

 

[little ol' e]

The nice thing about @David_R8 s offer is that he said he would provide KBC Tools part numbers for the inserts and the insert holder.

The information David provides will certainly help may here without a doubt.


With that said, 99% of the cheaper tooling has some/many draw backs. You can find variations just with different lot # inserts. Such as, terrible ground angles, insufficient coating along with the carbide grades. Its a crap shout initially until you figure out why and what is happening to inserts. Some inserts can handle the heat, some can handle interrupted cuts etc, etc. The higher end tooling is worth the investment IMHO, no guessing at that point. However, this is an expensive trade/hobby that often requires expensive tooling and set-ups, that some just cannot afford. In that case, HSS is truly the way to go at low RPM's for decent tool life and surface finishes.

I think the inserts you show look awesome. But which ones? Where do I get them? What do they cost? What speeds/feeds do they like? What about Cast Iron, Aluminium, Brass, hard steel, stainless, soft steel, etc etc etc. And what holders do I need, what is their part number and where do I get them?

Just holders alone, some are made from H-13 perfectly ground for the insert and insert screw for example. Try to change things up with cheaper inserts and screws ( Which I have in the past) doesn't end well. These are the 1st things that many guys try to do with indexable tooling but never really works out on the long haul..

Look at OSG for an example, they have an excellent exocarb line that is amazing for machining into the higher RC numbers but a 3/8 endmill or ball nose will run you up over $200.00 each.
However, a micro-grain carbide Tialn vari-mill endmill or ball nose ( YG brand for example) will perform well in anything below 38-45rc, yet will be destroyed in minutes over those numbers no matter what speed and feeds, cooling you try to take it at.
If you point me in the direction on where to post some tooling information, then I would certainly try to help out. I can provide pictures of holders, inserts, grades and what I use them for if members would like.

I'm not the greatest with write ups but will try lol ....

I purchase from Duramill, Try Hard and some Independant tooling guys as well.

 

[Susquatch]

If you point me in the direction on where to post some tooling information, then I would certainly try to help out. I can provide pictures of holders, inserts, grades and what I use them for if members would like.

I'm not the greatest with write ups but will try lol ....

OK, there are two threads that specifically deal with such things. The first is asking for your favorites for various applications (I had already added your info to that thread but deleted it when you offered to provide more info cuz it's always better if the suggester does the posting. This thread is also where I'll put @David_R8 s recommendations). The second is a list of insert and holder reference sources (you might wish to see if the reference documents for your stuff is included here and if not then please add it):

Thread 'What inserts do you like and why?' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/what-inserts-do-you-like-and-why.5495/

Thread 'Links to carbide insert reference documents' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/links-to-carbide-insert-reference-documents.5566/

 

[little ol' e]

Three simple things to remember.

1. I find with inserts you have flexibility of speeds and feeds.

2. Not sure on what material you are cutting or don't want to have too many options always go uncoated. Simple guide: Coated ones are generally for steels only.

3. Each Insert holder comes with a number, this specially tells you size and shape of the insert. Stick with that number lets you select for the application.

Not here to disagree with anyone here, but, IMHO
If some guys are just getting into indexable tooling over HSS, I would have to disagree and steer them away from any-all uncoated inserts.
Especially, if they are new to the hobby. Not knowing the different materials grades, speeds, feeds, depth of cuts or stepovers will certainly turn anything uncoated into a mess quickly along with a work piece...
Stick with coatings and find the coating that works best for the materials you plan to machine. The different grades of Carbide/coatings will then be much easier to work with once some experience has been established. The things to figure out is how to control premature wear, heat, and surface finish quality.
Micrograin carbide with Tialn coatings are a good starting point IMHO.

 

[little ol' e]

OK, there are two threads that specifically deal with such things. The first is asking for your favorites for various applications (I had already added your info to that thread but deleted it when you offered to provide more info cuz it's always better if the suggester does the posting. This thread is also where I'll put @David_R8 s recommendations). The second is a list of insert and holder reference sources (you might wish to see if the reference documents for your stuff is included here and if not then please add it):

Thread 'What inserts do you like and why?' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/what-inserts-do-you-like-and-why.5495/

Thread 'Links to carbide insert reference documents' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/links-to-carbide-insert-reference-documents.5566/

Sounds good. I will try to put something together by the weekend. From decent cheaper inserts to more higher end stuff. Inserts like the KYOCERA brand for example, staying on the cheaper side of inserts ( But expect to get a bad lot# of inserts now and again) The inserts fit other holders... but you can soon tell the insert screw does not seat the insert well on the insert itself or into the pocket of known brand holders.. which we know what that can cost us.
I will post some Iscar, Sandvik, Ingersol, Mitsubishi, and YG stuff maybe that will be a good start ?

 

[DavidR8]

Alrighty, managed to get back into my KBC account.
This is the tool holder: https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-428-103237
And these are the inserts: https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-244P-931

 

[Susquatch]

Alrighty, managed to get back into my KBC account.

Thanks David, do you use the left hand tool too?

 

[DavidR8]

Thanks David, do you use the left hand tool too?

I haven't sprung for it yet. It was mostly an experiment to see how much of a difference there would be between my import holder and inserts and some high quality stuff. The import inserts I have barely last a few passes. The Korloy inserts will do several projects before I feel the need to turn them to the other cutting edge.

 

[little ol' e]

Alrighty, managed to get back into my KBC account.
This is the tool holder: https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-428-103237
And these are the inserts: https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-244P-931

Hey David,
What material have you tried machining with the Korloy inserts? Are you roughing and finishing with those inserts ?
Do you re-call the previous inserts and holder you have tried that didn't work out with the types of material you were machining?