Basement Workshops Uninsurable??

[GummyMonster]

So I've been on hold building my workshop in the basement, waiting on the go ahead from my insurance broker. I just wanted to confirm if there was any requirements they had, such as fireproof wallboard, etc.
I was very surprised today when she told me that Wawanesa, and all other insurance writers she talked to FORBID this type of workshop in any house they insure.
I don't want to get anyone in trouble, and what you do is totally your business, but how are you guys with basement workshops doing this?
I'm bringing this up in case anyone didn't ask about insurance, and has inadvertently voided their policy.
Or if someone can tell me which insurance companies allow such a workshop inside the house so I can contact them.
I can't believe any of you are knowingly doing this without insurance.
Any direction is greatly appreciated.
Ken

 

[YYCHM]

Did you describe your basement shop as a business venture?

@CalgaryPT wanted to build and marketing his skunk trap from his attached garage shop but his insurance broker said nope voids your house insurance.

 

[GummyMonster]

No,
It was made 100% clear that it is a hobby at this point.
She was even going to put me in touch with a commercial broker, just to find out what would be needed to use it in a business context one day.
Ken

 

[YYCHM]

No,
It was made 100% clear that it is a hobby at this point.
She was even going to put me in touch with a commercial broker, just to find out what would be needed to use it in a business context one day.
Ken

Ya, I'm not believing this. There must be thousands of basement hobby wood working and model building shops out there.

 

[GummyMonster]

I find this hard to believe myself.
I made out a list of equipment I'd be using, made certain they knew I would not be doing any welding, plasma cutting, or side grinding (which creates a lot of sparks for a long distance). It was clear that all machining equipment would be over concrete floors, with little to no highly combustible material used.
I'm going to see what other members have to say, then start reaching out to other insurance companies. Which kinda sucks, since I've been a client of Wawanesa for about 35 years. Oh well, if they don't want my business, I'm sure someone will.
Ken

 

[YYCHM]

Did you ask about using your garage? Is your garage attached to detached? Does it matter?

 

[kevin.decelles]

Interesting topic. My shop is an external building, and all that shows up are fees for “external buildings” and “contents”. No one has ever asked about what contents or what I do in there

Now, wood burning fireplace — they are very vocal about not supporting that

Assume I’m firing some pottery in my kiln, and the shop goes up, I’m expecting coverage

Same if my gas weed eater bursts into flames in my attached garage

Naive I know …. But as a personal hobby (no commercial ) , what is one to expect?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GummyMonster]

I hadn't asked about my garage, as setting it up in my basement is worlds better for me.
If necessary I will use my garage, but the expense of upgrading it for spending a lot of time out there and for the machines will put off the setup of all this equipment until next year, minimum.
I'm going to start contacting other insurance companies. I will keep posting as I find out more.
Ken

 

[Janger]

Try SMI Saskatchewan mutual insurance.

 

[GummyMonster]

I'll contact them Janger.
Thanks

 

[Dabbler]

When my shop was in my basement, there were no problems, each machine had a declared value in the rider. That was 28 years ago, however. If they have no way to have an actuary develop a risk profile for this 'activity' it will be a hard 'no'. You are not trying to insure your 'activity' -- you are needing to add your machines to your rider. We also do this for our grand piano and the other big dollar musical instruments.

 

[GummyMonster]

Thanks Dabbler,
I think you're correct. People have all sorts of things in their homes that have the potential to be dangerous. In reality a gas stove, wood heater, or even a heat gun are far more likely to cause problems .
I'll go this this route and see.
Ken

 

[CalgaryPT]

Did you describe your basement shop as a business venture?

@CalgaryPT wanted to build and marketing his skunk trap from his attached garage shop but his insurance broker said nope voids your house insurance.

I do zero business in my garage due to insurance reasons.

The number one cause of fires in homes is cooking. Welding or hot work doesn't even make the list. But good luck pointing this out to a broker. For an industry that prides itself in being data-driven, there's more than a hint of hypocrisy here.

BTW, shortly after cooking accidents in the home are candles as a hazard. So if you do find an agent who is sympathetic to your situation and is willing to underwrite you, don't celebrate your new policy with a cake.

 

[GummyMonster]

I actually made it crystal clear to them that it was 100% a hobby room. No business.
I'm rather annoyed with them, since they dragged out this decision for 3 weeks. I must have emailed them 6-8 times asking why it was taking so long, always a different reason given. Plus we've never made a single house insurance claim in 30+ years. You'd think loyalty to the same company would count for something.
And then she tells me it's an absolute no for the insurance company.
Well,
If it's an absolute no, then why would it take 3 weeks to "decide"?
I'm going to talk to a few different brokers, and do as Dabbler said.
I'll list the equipment as hobby shaping machines, and their value. That's all they need.
Here's hoping,
Ken

 

[Dabbler]

@GummyMonster The insurance industry has a dirty secret that they avoid telling you about. They keep a comprehensive database of these sort of requests, indexed by your address and name. Once one underwriter refuses, pretty much every other one will do the same. I recently verified this during my demi-annual quest for the best insurance rate - every company knew what the other company quoted me (they said they didn't, but when they faxed me my quote, one insurance company sent the wrong page). -- I really don't know how they get around the FOIP issues.

At the risk of being off topic, I really got disgusted by a certain manager at a specific insurance company, and I had been with them for over 10 years at that point. I told them I'd rather do without any insurance at all than deal with c**p like that... He smugly informed me that house insurance was a requirement for my mortgage, and that he'd be putting up a post on the' common information network' (they called it at the time) if I didn't cave. I cancelled the insurance the next day, as I owned my house freehold.

It was 15 years before I got house insurance again, with many concessions, from the same company - with a different general manager.

Being trained as an engineer, and a little bit of a mathhead, I did my own actuarial calculations, and felt the risk was warranted, given that I could afford to replace the house in case of fire or other catastrophe... So I was self insured.

Now I am insured at more than I think is warranted, with riders on everything in the house and garage that is worth over $1000 or is otherwise difficult to replace.

---------------------

anyway to get back on topic, if you get refused for a reason by one company, you may find a fast, hard 'no' from others. Be prepared to explain that the 'other guy' completely got your request wrong, and then ask a simple, clear and unambiguous question.

 

[YYCHM]

@GummyMonster The insurance industry has a dirty secret that they avoid telling you about. They keep a comprehensive database of these sort of requests, indexed by your address and name. Once one underwriter refuses, pretty much every other one will do the same. I recently verified this during my demi-annual quest for the best insurance rate - every company knew what the other company quoted me (they said they didn't, but when they faxed me my quote, one insurance company sent the wrong page). -- I really don't know how they get around the FOIP issues.

At the risk of being off topic, I really got disgusted by a certain manager at a specific insurance company, and I had been with them for over 10 years at that point. I told them I'd rather do without any insurance at all than deal with c**p like that... He smugly informed me that house insurance was a requirement for my mortgage, and that he'd be putting up a post on the' common information network' (they called it at the time) if I didn't cave. I cancelled the insurance the next day, as I owned my house freehold.

It was 15 years before I got house insurance again, with many concessions, from the same company - with a different general manager.

Being trained as an engineer, and a little bit of a mathhead, I did my own actuarial calculations, and felt the risk was warranted, given that I could afford to replace the house in case of fire or other catastrophe... So I was self insured.

Now I am insured at more than I think is warranted, with riders on everything in the house and garage that is worth over $1000 or is otherwise difficult to replace.

---------------------

anyway to get back on topic, if you get refused for a reason by one company, you may find a fast, hard 'no' from others. Be prepared to explain that the 'other guy' completely got your request wrong, and then ask a simple, clear and unambiguous question.

Hmmmm...... If this is the case why do they attempt to steal accounts from each other? My house insurance guy wants us to move our vehicles over to them and my vehicle insurance guy wants us to move the house over to them. Both claim they will save me money?

 

[Dabbler]

My house insurance guy wants us to move our vehicles over to them

This is the difference between agents and underwriters - agents steal each other's business. Underwriters tend to cover each other's asses.

 

[Brent H]

Building my house: Insurance company said it was not possible that someone could build their own home ( took me 2 years), the bQ@CH told me it was not possible for me to do this work alone. Builders insurance for ME was $4200 for 6 months. I should be done or I was incompetent according to her. Oh boy was I steamed.....I paid the money as I needed the insurance to get my first loan from the bank - got the first loan for 60K .......policy shows up in the mail.........NOTHING covered - since I was doing the work, no theft, no breakage, no repairs for any damage, foundation covered to the limit of the contractor (me) - totally crap.......

After I got the first install pay and went to the bank I explained to the bank loan agent the deal with the insurance. This guy was awesome and "got it" . Basically he said to keep on working, get the house ready and then see him with a progress report from the evaluator. Evaluator came, saw the house and the state it was at and told me if I wanted to build again, he would back me and also that he would recommend payments from the bank over what I required.

Insurance can be crap and not worth it - pay for collision on your vehicle and after 4 years you get zero in return.....pro rated vehicles.....hmmmmmm you get totalled by someone far from your place in a 15 year old car and ...."well sir, your car value is $50 we can pay that with a cheque" ....umm hello, I still need to get home..........' click'.....

Not impressed with insurance for anything

 

[YYCHM]

Not impressed with insurance for anything

Same for us. Asked (Note - asked a question) if insurance would cover hale damage to our vehicles. The next thing we know we are dealing with someone in Ont (our broker is in Calgary?) and they send a guy out that declares our vehicles as write offs, no ifs ands or buts, too late to back out now, registered as write offs. Then we get a letter stating a salvage company will be taking possession of said vehicles on such and such a date. What the hell is this about..... it's cosmetic damage? Put our foot down and only then did they admit we could keep the vehicles with a reduced payout. That kind of horse sh.t just leaves you shaking with anger.

Oh ya.... there is more. They insisted I get the one vehicle they deemed repairable repaired at a shop that was way out of our way and that repair took 4 months and 5 trips across town. Not impressed.

 

[Dabbler]

Since this has devolved already...

My car was hit while parked by a driverless vehicle, which was pushed into my 4X4 truck. (!!) The lady had a standard, parked at the top of the hill, in neutral, no parking brake. She gets out of the car and goes into the house. A while later -boom- and now I have to talk to insurance.

The TLDR is that they valued my car at 800$ when the same vehicle with *more* miles on it was around 5000$. Since I had a business that required me to go to client sites, I had a car on rental on her insurance company's expense. After about 2 months of them playing hardball, I got my mechanic to quote a 'jobber price' fix for 2,400$. I sent them the paperwork (by fax no less) and then informed them that until they resolved the isssue to my satisfaction, even through litigation, I would be driving the rental car - on their dime, at 35$ a day. [They seemed to forget that they had rented it for me] They were already in for nearly 2000$ rental, and I suggested it would take at least 6 months to get in front of a judge (i.e. another 5000$ or so). They sent someone to my house within the hour with a nice cheque for $2,400 and picked up the rental keys and car.

Until the car is out of your hands and they have posession of it, it cannot be declared scrap, no matter what they say.