Arc Starters

[LaurieF]

Or "hot start"? I notice that some inverter stick welders have such a feature which, as I understand it, aids in starting the arc by supplying an extra burst of current for a second or two.

Now, that is of considerable interest for me as I have pretty consistent trouble getting the arc started at least at current settings I find the best compromise between hard starting and burning through the rod too quickly (I typically use 1/8" 7014 at about 110 indicated amps).

I have tried all the usual techniques such as scratching or pecking or, some combination of the two but most times the rod will stick although on occasion, I can get a few consecutive non-sticks in a row. I also scrape the end of the rod between welds and have tried heating the rod by running a small bead on a scrap piece before welding the subject item. Why the difference I have been unable to figure out. I have checked the cable connectors and made sure the ground is clamped on clean metal, all to no avail.

One thing that occurs to me is that don't have a rod oven or even a moisture proof container and I have had the same box of rods for several years - does that make a significant difference to arc starting??

Anyone have any suggestions? Do the inverter hot starts help?

TIA

 

[Brent H]

@LaurieF : interesting question as I have an inverter type welder but have not had any "sticking" issues. For the most part the only time I have had a rod stick was if the amperage was a bit too low, dirty weld material (like paint, rust etc) or a poor ground. The Poor ground and low amps typically being more of an issue.

I do not have a rod oven and for the most part (unless you are doing structural welding) they are not required. The 60xx series type rods with cellulose based flux do not have moisture issues. The 7018 rods are low hydrogen flux rods that will absorb moisture and the moisture can affect the weld by inducing hydrogen micro bubbles. This is where the whole easy bake oven comes into play - however, as a regular Joe welding at home a box of 7018 that is not soaking wet will weld up a reasonable frame or what have you. If you need to do something structural - like a trailer tongue or the like, buy a small amount of hermetically sealed rods, open on site and weld everything up you need to within a hour or so. The remaining rods are good for all the other projects. If you want the oven route you need to keep the rods at 250 to 300 Deg F and use them within a certain time frame. Re-baking at 700 to 800 F for the required times is usually out of the realm/necessity of a hobby person.

I have welded things up in the rain and with damp rods without huge issues. I welded up a frame for something using a bunch of 30 year old rods my uncle gave me wrapped up in tin foil and they worked fine for the job - produced a good bead and penetration. Would I drive across a bridge I built with that rod...probably...but I wouldn't let you - LOL

I will see if the "hot start" does anything next time welding. I think it is off on my machine right now.

 

[Janger]

On my inverter MIG I discovered the ground clamp as commonly supplied wasn’t very good. I just bought a new one from princess and it made a big difference. The new one has a much stronger spring. Cheap to try.

 

[LaurieF]

Thanks gents.

Ben, I've been looking at buying one of the Ali Express inverter welders (I have an old Century 200A AC buzz-box now) and am also wondering if they would do a better job apart from the Hot Start capability. I guess they provide DC welding but whether or not that would provide significant benefit for my unsophisticated welding jobs, I don't know either.

Janger, I've filed the work contact points on my ground clamp but think I'll take a closer look at the cable connectors. I'm still mystified as to why I sometimes have no problem striking the arc but most times having to do multiple tries (accompanied on occasion by suitable cursing ).

 

[6.5 Fan]

If you want trouble with starting an arc i can sell you an old 1953 Forney welder i have kicking around. Terrible thing to get arc started, heavy as all get out. likely worth more for scrap than as a welder.

 

[YotaBota]

I found out by accident that if you have "Hi-Freq" on your welder that works great as an arc start. The hi-freq is normally used with Tig but I accidentally flipped the switch to on, it took me a while to figure out why there was was these tiny little arcs when hooking up the ground or even when putting the rod in the holder. The problem was that the hi-freq also messed with my garage door openers and the doors would open by themselves when I was welding,, oops. lol

 

[Chicken lights]

@LaurieF : interesting question as I have an inverter type welder but have not had any "sticking" issues. For the most part the only time I have had a rod stick was if the amperage was a bit too low, dirty weld material (like paint, rust etc) or a poor ground. The Poor ground and low amps typically being more of an issue.

I do not have a rod oven and for the most part (unless you are doing structural welding) they are not required. The 60xx series type rods with cellulose based flux do not have moisture issues. The 7018 rods are low hydrogen flux rods that will absorb moisture and the moisture can affect the weld by inducing hydrogen micro bubbles. This is where the whole easy bake oven comes into play - however, as a regular Joe welding at home a box of 7018 that is not soaking wet will weld up a reasonable frame or what have you. If you need to do something structural - like a trailer tongue or the like, buy a small amount of hermetically sealed rods, open on site and weld everything up you need to within a hour or so. The remaining rods are good for all the other projects. If you want the oven route you need to keep the rods at 250 to 300 Deg F and use them within a certain time frame. Re-baking at 700 to 800 F for the required times is usually out of the realm/necessity of a hobby person.

I have welded things up in the rain and with damp rods without huge issues. I welded up a frame for something using a bunch of 30 year old rods my uncle gave me wrapped up in tin foil and they worked fine for the job - produced a good bead and penetration. Would I drive across a bridge I built with that rod...probably...but I wouldn't let you - LOL

I will see if the "hot start" does anything next time welding. I think it is off on my machine right now.

One trick is to get an old fridge that doesn’t work anymore. As long as the lightbulb works. Wire it to run the lightbulb with the door closed. Basically there’s enough heat to keep things warm and dry this way. The fridge, by design, makes for a tight seal with the door closed. Maybe not as good as a proper oven, but it works well enough

 

[LaurieF]

OK, cleaned the cable connector for my ground clamp. It looked fine but scraped with a bit of fine sandpaper and tried it. Arc starting seems notably easier now so maybe that was the issue. Not sure though as if there was a bad connection there, one would expect it to heat up after the arc was struck(?) and I have noticed nothing suggesting that. OTOH, maybe it does heat up initially and the expansion against the connector mounting bolt improves the connection...

 

[phaxtris]

run a smaller electrode (3/32), that will solve your to much heat/burn through/ arc starting issues

im not super familiar with 7014 but i do believe it is very similar to 7018 in amperage settings and 110a for that size/type rod is very low, an experienced welder, myself included would have troubles getting consistent arc starts at that low of an amperage, to give you an idea the typical lowest amperage for a 1/8 7018 rod that most experienced welders would run is about 115a....and that is already considered very low

 

[Johnwa]

If you want trouble with starting an arc i can sell you an old 1953 Forney welder i have kicking around. Terrible thing to get arc started, heavy as all get out. likely worth more for scrap than as a welder.

They certainly had a bad reputation.
I was told that the problem with the Forneys was that the open circuit voltage isn‘t high enough.

 

[YotaBota]

It's been a "couple" of years since welding school but 110 for a 1/8 rod is a bit on the low side. I was taught to convert the rod size to thou and use that as a starting point for your amps setting, ie a 1/8 rod is .125 so start at 125 amps and fine tune from there. I normally run a 3/32 7014 at 95ish amps.
7014 is nice general use rod, when you get your amps/speed right the slag will just peel up as it cools making cleanup quick and easy.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Most rod sticking can be attributed to, as others mentioned,
- low amps - if it sticks go higher
- dirty material
- poor ground. My ground has spring so strong I need both hands - BUT it can still arc a lot if the surface it is touching is not clean, like painted.
- damaged rod - if the tip of the rod is exposed metal and there is no covering for a bit then the metal will stick.

I have a lot of 6010 rods and generally use that. Thus my welds do not look anything even similar to "great". I usually wave with them.

 

[LaurieF]

Hey folks, the amp adjustment on my Century box is pretty crude (a balky lever sliding up/down) and I expect the indicated amps may not be v accurate. I do though have a clamp-on ammeter so will try to get a reading. In any case, if I goose up the amperage, I do get a lot less sticking but I find the rod burns too fast and the weld is harder to control as a result (probably though due to my lack of good technique). I also trim off the rod if the metal core protrudes past the flux (and vice-versa).

Brent, did you get a chance to try "hot-start" on your welder?

 

[Brent H]

@LaurieF - I am out to sea for 3 more weeks so ....sadly no is the answer......A few others on here have the same welder ( 211Si from Everlast) maybe someone can lay out some beads for you? I do have welding when I get home so if you can wait, I will give it a go - There are a lot of you tube videos on the Everlast welder - Mine does have the hot start, and the arc force and adjustment for the hot start time.

Here is a video of what the hot start can do:

And a Video on the welder features:

 

[YYCHM]

I am out to sea for 3 more weeks

As in salt water? Where are you this trip?

 

[Brent H]

Lake Superior - pretty much can’t see land most times so arrrr she be close enough to the sea - yar!! LOL