CA-BC Amazon.ca vs direct from Accusize?

[mickeyf]

For example - "Accusize Industrial Tools 2'' Carbide Indexable End Mill, R8 Shank, with 3 Pc Tpg 322 Inserts"

From Amazon ; $108, free shipping (with prime, so not quite free, but small), painless returns, nearly 300 reviews
From Accusize: $108 + shipping + tax == $138.60. "if you do need to return an order, we’re happy to help. Just email us directly and we’ll take you through the process." 3 reviews.

I'm guessing the speed of shipping is comparable.

Now, this is presumably the same made in China item, although the photos on each site do show a different number on the tool. Amazon reviews always show some percent of unhappy no matter what the product or supplier. Accusize reviews in this case are all good, but is this because of the product shipped, or because the sample size if tiny, or even doctored?

I want to "Buy Canadian" (well, Chinese but directly supporting a Canadian company), and I'd be happy to not further line Mr. Bezo's pockets, but this is pretty significant, percentage wise. What's a person to do if their funds have some sort of limit (I think that would be most of us)?

Is this simply a matter of Amazon getting these things at a huge discount because they have such wide exposure and potential for sales? Or...? Thoughts?

 

[David]

I just bought a metric dial indicator direct from Accusize because I will not support Amazon any longer.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

For example - "Accusize Industrial Tools 2'' Carbide Indexable End Mill, R8 Shank, with 3 Pc Tpg 322 Inserts"

From Amazon ; $108, free shipping (with prime, so not quite free, but small), painless returns, nearly 300 reviews
From Accusize: $108 + shipping + tax == $138.60. "if you do need to return an order, we’re happy to help. Just email us directly and we’ll take you through the process." 3 reviews.

I'm guessing the speed of shipping is comparable.

Now, this is presumably the same made in China item, although the photos on each site do show a different number on the tool. Amazon reviews always show some percent of unhappy no matter what the product or supplier. Accusize reviews in this case are all good, but is this because of the product shipped, or because the sample size if tiny, or even doctored?

I want to "Buy Canadian" (well, Chinese but directly supporting a Canadian company), and I'd be happy to not further line Mr. Bezo's pockets, but this is pretty significant, percentage wise. What's a person to do if their funds have some sort of limit (I think that would be most of us)?

Is this simply a matter of Amazon getting these things at a huge discount because they have such wide exposure and potential for sales? Or...? Thoughts?

"Amazon" doesn't get these items at a huge discount/ Amazon is merely a fulfillment center in this case aiding Accusize to build a brand and distribution across all of Canada when their head office is in the GTA.

Accusize directs much of their imports to amazon fulfillment centers around Canada and maintains the listings on the amazon website. Amazon packs and distributes the items for a fee. Shipping fees are typically the only variance at all and beyond the control of small distributors, unlike amazon

Your argument "I'd be happy to not further line Mr. Bezo's pockets, but... perfectly illustrates how amazon harms small businesses

 

[Canadium]

For example - "Accusize Industrial Tools 2'' Carbide Indexable End Mill, R8 Shank, with 3 Pc Tpg 322 Inserts"

From Amazon ; $108, free shipping (with prime, so not quite free, but small), painless returns, nearly 300 reviews
From Accusize: $108 + shipping + tax == $138.60. "if you do need to return an order, we’re happy to help. Just email us directly and we’ll take you through the process." 3 reviews.

I'm guessing the speed of shipping is comparable.

Now, this is presumably the same made in China item, although the photos on each site do show a different number on the tool. Amazon reviews always show some percent of unhappy no matter what the product or supplier. Accusize reviews in this case are all good, but is this because of the product shipped, or because the sample size if tiny, or even doctored?

I want to "Buy Canadian" (well, Chinese but directly supporting a Canadian company), and I'd be happy to not further line Mr. Bezo's pockets, but this is pretty significant, percentage wise. What's a person to do if their funds have some sort of limit (I think that would be most of us)?

Is this simply a matter of Amazon getting these things at a huge discount because they have such wide exposure and potential for sales? Or...? Thoughts?

Your example implies that if you buy thru Amazon you don't pay GST. I doubt that is true. More likely it is exactly as @TorontoBuilder says. The difference is in the shipping.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

Your example implies that if you buy thru Amazon you don't pay GST. I doubt that is true. More likely it is exactly as @TorontoBuilder says. The difference is in the shipping.

You pay HST on every purchase thru amazon, including if you buy from amazon.com rather than .ca

The only difference is the power of amazon's distribution system and ability to lure users with their amazon prime services.

Buy direct Mikey to meet your stated goal.

 

[PeterT]

From Amazon ; $108, free shipping (with prime, so not quite free, but small), painless returns, nearly 300 reviews
From Accusize: $108 + shipping + tax == $138.60. "if you do need to return an order, we’re happy to help. Just email us directly and we’ll take you through the process." 3 reviews.

As others have said, you will pay GST (& provincial tax as applicable) in both cases. But any added shipping expense also pays GST. If you order through prime with free shipping its tax% * zero shipping = zero cost to you. If you order direct from Accu they will used Canada Post or courier, so will incure shipping charge & that's where tax will be baked in. Probably along with fuel surcharges, climate change fees & other dingers for good measure. That's not the vendors fault, that's reality in Canada.

Yes, wise to consider any probability of returning the item, then the math goes in reverse. Generally 'free' return through Prime so no expense to you (under their return conditions). But maybe not free direct return to Accu. If its defective or missing parts they may cut you a deal at their their expense. But if you just don't like it or some condition outside their normal terms, returned gets charged at your expense & I believe restocking charge at your expense. Metal things are heavy & shipping is not cheap, so best be be aware of this.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

As others have said, you will pay GST (& provincial tax as applicable) in both cases. But any added shipping expense also pays GST. If you order through prime with free shipping its tax% * zero shipping = zero cost to you. If you order direct from Accu they will used Canada Post or courier, so will incure shipping charge & that's where tax will be baked in. Probably along with fuel surcharges, climate change fees & other dingers for good measure. That's not the vendors fault, that's reality in Canada.

Yes, wise to consider any probability of returning the item, then the math goes in reverse. Generally 'free' return through Prime so no expense to you (under their return conditions). But maybe not free direct return to Accu. If its defective or missing parts they may cut you a deal at their their expense. But if you just don't like it or some condition outside their normal terms, returned gets charged at your expense & I believe restocking charge at your expense. Metal things are heavy & shipping is not cheap, so best be be aware of this.

The reality anywhere, shipping costs. I've never purchased an accusize item I ever wished to return. They've always exceeded my expectation. If a part was missing the company will make it right at their expense though.

The costs of amazon's free shipping is just hidden and has a greater impact than cash alone.

 

[PeterT]

I've never purchased an accusize item I ever wished to return. They've always exceeded my expectation.

I have. A few times, actually. In those cases clearly a case of bad quality, way outside the suggested specs. Having said that, after some corroborating pictures & text exchange, return was expedient & problem free. More than I can say for some other sellers much bigger than them. Note that in my case Accu had to pre-authorize return even though purchased through Prime, which is another detail I forgot to mention. I just always assumed returns were just between Amazon & purchaser but there must be some fine print in there somewhere. Anyway, just to be clear, on several other transactions from Accu, everything went perfectly fine.

 

[YotaBota]

Amazon doesn't do anything for free. It's my understanding that the vendor still pays shipping thru the fees that Amazon charges and the return cost to Amazon is also charged to the vendor.

Yet Accusize won't wave their shipping costs if you buy from them directly. They're quit happy to pay the Amazon fees out of the same cost they charge us from their on line store. If you buy enough then our 10% discount could cover their shipping cost.

 

[PeterT]

Amazon doesn't do anything for free. It's my understanding that the vendor still pays shipping thru the fees that Amazon charges and the return cost to Amazon is also charged to the vendor.

Not too many longstanding businesses I can think of that do things for free. Maybe the discount happens when vendor sends a large quantity of items to the local distribution center vs onsey-twosey? I'm sure there is an answer in there somewhere, but the takeaway point is 108.00 vs 138.60 for the same item in arguably faster delivery time. And presumably Accu is happy with the relationship otherwise they wouldn't be dealing with Amazon. I guess if you are trying to avoid or punish Amazon, that's a different angle. But I'm just looking at the numbers.

Getting off topic but I went to re-order some Amazon items purchased a year ago. WTF. Some very ordinary things are like double. This had nothing to do do with tariffs or supply chain or whatever. Coffee beans went from 19$ to 42$ to now $21. At least maybe they could blame the weather or bean infestation or whatever. Crazy times. It always pays to check.

 

[trlvn]

... our 10% discount could cover their shipping cost.

I believe our 10% Canadian Hobby Metal Workers discount is still in effect for purchases direct from Accusize.

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/accusize-discount-for-members.10773/post-152032

Buying direct, the discounted purchase price is $97.20 ($108.00 - $10.80 = 97.20) before HST and shipping.

AIUI, Accusize has not found a way to give us a discount on purchases made through Amazon. Given the current situation, I'll be placing any orders direct with Accusize.

Craig
(Although I've never done this myself.)

 

[PeterT]

Buying direct, the discounted purchase price is $97.20 ($108.00 - $10.80 = 97.20) before HST and shipping.

very good point

 

[TorontoBuilder]

Not too many longstanding businesses I can think of that do things for free. Maybe the discount happens when vendor sends a large quantity of items to the local distribution center vs onsey-twosey? I'm sure there is an answer in there somewhere, but the takeaway point is 108.00 vs 138.60 for the same item in arguably faster delivery time. And presumably Accu is happy with the relationship otherwise they wouldn't be dealing with Amazon. I guess if you are trying to avoid or punish Amazon, that's a different angle. But I'm just looking at the numbers.

Getting off topic but I went to re-order some Amazon items purchased a year ago. WTF. Some very ordinary things are like double. This had nothing to do do with tariffs or supply chain or whatever. Coffee beans went from 19$ to 42$ to now $21. At least maybe they could blame the weather or bean infestation or whatever. Crazy times. It always pays to check.

speaking of coffee....

I buy locally roasted barzula coffee in an espresso grind. I buy case with 24 packages of 250gram espresso grind coffee. This size in stores sells for $4.99 each typically. Competitors like Lavazza cost $6.99 ea.

When I buy bulk the cost works out to $3.33 each. I usually pick these up, but if I ship instead it works out to just over 4 bucks each. The company has the largest choice of shipping options I've ever seen in my life too...

They're also one of the few sellers of ESE pods for the days I feel so crappy I can't even face using the espresso maker.

 

[mickeyf]

And presumably Accu is happy with the relationship otherwise they wouldn't be dealing with Amazon.

Was gonna say. Seems to be a mutually beneficial relationship, like every good business deal is. Accusize reaches a larger audience and sells much more than they might if simply selling direct. Amazon may trim Accu's costs less than eBay would for all I know.

I had completely forgotten the discount, since my main source of both tools and material is scrounging used stuff. But that does level things noticeably.

clearly a case of bad quality, way outside the suggested specs

..this is what makes me nervous, but in the (Amazon) reviews I've read in which people sent things back, they never mentioned needing to deal with Accusize. It sounded like a regular "just a couple of clicks and drop it off" Amazon return.

And having said that, however good a company's reputation in general is, if they do sell me something that is not as described (i.e. out of spec in the case of a machine or measuring tool) I don't feel at all bad about them being the ones to eat the return shipping cost.

 

[jorogi]

I have Prime and when I order Accusize I often find that there is a delivery fee and slow delivery at checkout anyway. Ordering direct with our discount has been better in my experience.
I wish we could get some deal from KBC. When starting off with this bottomless pit of a hobby it was easy to hit their free shipping limits but the limit has gone way up so a one of (or 10 of) order is ridiculous when you get dinged shipping.
I was getting ready to write a post ripping them a new one. I ordered 4 collets and things went sideways again. First the order got duplicated. First order arrives in 2 or 3 days from Michigan and 1 collet is a different brand, 0.0005 TIR as opposed to 0.0002 on what I ordered. The second order shows up 2 weeks later but is correct. Both orders were shipped without confirmation of shipping cost as they said they would before shipping. The 2 day delivery $24 and the 2 week delivery was $42, both from the same warehouse. I lodged a complaint and no response for 2 weeks. I called again and they sent an approval to return with a 15% restocking fee, and shipping both ways on me. Another email and it seems like things are sorted out, no restocking fee, refund of the second order and COD shipping label. Certainly not as easy and smooth as Amazon but okay overall. I'm okay too with the shipping fee as they offered a $25 discount on orders over $75.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

I wish we could get some deal from KBC. When starting off with this bottomless pit of a hobby it was easy to hit their free shipping limits but the limit has gone way up so a one of (or 10 of) order is ridiculous when you get dinged shipping.

Good luck getting member discount, even if there were I wont purchase from them.

 

[jorogi]

Good luck getting member discount, even if there were I wont purchase from them.

Seems like most outfits want you to go to Amazon

 

[skippyelwell]

I wish we could get some deal from KBC. When starting off with this bottomless pit of a hobby it was easy to hit their free shipping limits but the limit has gone way up so a one of (or 10 of) order is ridiculous when you get dinged shipping.

I've spent close to a $1000 at KBC this year, I p/u and order on Monday and realized I ordered a 5/16" threaded handle instead of the 3/8" handle I need.
Emailed KBC that day and asked if I could come in and swap it for the handle I need, they said they will have to refund me the money I paid for the handle then I have order the proper one and then find something else I need to bring the total up to $25 min.
What kind of bs is that?

 

[jorogi]

I've spent close to a $1000 at KBC this year, I p/u and order on Monday and realized I ordered a 5/16" threaded handle instead of the 3/8" handle I need.
Emailed KBC that day and asked if I could come in and swap it for the handle I need, they said they will have to refund me the money I paid for the handle then I have order the proper one and then find something else I need to bring the total up to $25 min.
What kind of bs is that?

RIP any concept of customer service.

 

[Susquatch]

@mickeyf - I often compare Amazon vs accusize direct with our forum discount. The discount makes a difference on bigger purchases. But even if I buy on Amazon, I do returns (for those few times it was needed) direct to Accusize. They seem to like avoiding the amazon filter when that happens. Perhaps it affects them in some way. They also do free shipping when that happens. So direct returns make sense.

Anyway, do the math and then decide what's right for you.

In the meantime, perhaps I'll touch base with them and see how they are doing with free shipping direct. They were not ready to do that when we first set up the discount but maybe they are now.