Fergusmacfurkin
Member
Hi all, just putting together my thoughts on super cheap mini lathes. This comes after about 3-4 months of tinkering and fiddling with a vevor brand mini lathe, but I think I can safely say that it applies to pretty much any cheap mini lathes on the market in broad strokes.
Before I begin, a few caveats.
1. This reflects my own experience, so mileage may vary.
2. This is from a beginner to an absolute beginner who is looking to buy their first lathe or get into machining for the first time.
To start with; is getting a <$1000 lathe worth it? TL;DR: kinda* ** *** **** ***** ******* ********* ********* **************.
The big questions that you need to answer for yourself are:
1. What do you want the lathe to do? Do you want to join the church of Kozo Hiraoka and build a working steam locomotive? Do you want to machine your own parts for that 1957 Studebaker you keep telling your partner that you'll get out of the garage *this* year before winter hits.
2. How much is your time worth? With a cheap lathe comes a lot more work to get it tuned. The finishing will be a lot rougher and it may not even be usable right out of the box. Feeds may bind like crazy, motors may need to be reattached properly, gears may not even engage properly without some fine persuasion. Not to say that a more expensive lathe won't require tuning to get the most out of it, but one can safely expect it to not require hours of fiddling to get it to a usable state once it's had all the shipping grease clean off and it's bits oiled.
In my case, I needed to make tiny parts for a saxophone. (the thread for that adventure is in the current projects forum) and the criteria and circumstances that dictated my decision were as follows.
1. The parts I need have not been manufactured in any capacity since the 1950s
2. I have a very rare example of a saxophone with *ALL* it's original hardware. IYKYK
3. It was going to cost $500 for my local machine shop to make a crimping die for the one part that I didn't think I could do on my wood lathe (I now know exactly how naïve that idea was) and they weren't that excited to do it either.
4. I already had a reasonably well stocked woodshop and a metalworking drill press.
5. I suck at not spending money. So saving up for something better wasn't really an option.
6. I'm a mechanic by trade and have used engine lathes before. So I felt confident that I could figure out any rough edges.
7. My shop does not have 3 phase power and 220V would require some electrical work.
With that all in mind, what I needed was a compact lathe for turning ridiculously small parts that was close enough to $500 to make having a working machine at the end of it a net gain. I also acknowledged that I was buying a project in and of itself. I have been satisfied with what I got at the price I got it. It has been a learning experience and I do not regret a moment of it. Would I go the same route knowing what I know now? I'm not sure. If I'd had to pay full price, I probably would have gone a different route.
So, why should you buy a cheap AF mini lathe from amazon/vevor/princess auto/etc?
1. It is a lathe and it can do lathe things. During my early research I remember seeing someone saying in a forum that "any lathe is better than no lathe". This so true and as long as it will spin metal and break a chip, you can make probably it work.
2. Customization. When you get a super cheap lathe, you are buying pretty close to a bare chassis. There will be changes you want to make, but you will be making those changes to match your needs and wants.
3. You will learn a lot about yourself. Do you like to tinker with things, do you find enjoyment out of making a silk purse out of a sow's ear, do you want to dig right into the guts of your tools and get to know them intimately? These are questions that would be best answered before hand, but you will find answers within the first 4 hours of interacting with one of these machines. (allowing 3 hours for unboxing, disassembly, cleaning and reassembly)
4. You will learn about the value of the details that are intrinsic to machining. Nothing drives it home like spending 2 hours on a lapping plate to get your gibs to slide smoothly.
5. You aren't sure if machining is for you. It's a much lower barrier to entry than getting a Precision Mathews or other "name brand" machine. By the time you can make chips that are reasonably accurate, you'll know if this is for you.
Now, let talk about the draw backs of super cheap lathes.
1. There is a very good chance you will have to spend a lot of time right off the bat tuning it up to make it usable. Straight out of the box, odds are good that it won't do much more than have all the required bits to qualify as a lathe. ie there will be a chuck, a motor, a bed, tail stock, head stock and carriage. But anything beyond that is luck of the draw. In my case, the main carriage has been smooth and stable right from day one, but the compound and cross slides have been a persistent thorn that is slowly improving with time. The motor and headstock on mine have passed a cursory inspection and are functional, if not perfect. I've seen unboxing videos where this is not the case. So far, it's nothing that can't be fixed with some time, elbow grease and creative thinking. The bone of a lathe are there, they just may need some polish.
2. They are very limited in what they can do. I'm making parts that could be argued to be closer to watch making than "machining" so the limitations of mine have yet to rear their collective head for me. Those limitations come in the form of very limited swing, a distinct lack of power and questionable tailstock design. (at least for the vevor I have) This all translates to the largest diameter I can safely turn is 4" and that is pushing it. While I have managed to do some work on 4140 steel, it was very light passes, very sharp tooling and listening to the motor lug like a tractor that just found a lump of clay while plowing. Even a .010 cut on brass can make the motor audibly start to struggle.
3. Longevity. These are not going to survive to be passed on to grandkids. The design, the materials, everything about these lathes is built simple and cheap. (obviously) It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a plastic gear train isn't going to have the longevity of steel, but there are subtler design choices that will affect this too. In my case, the power feed clutch uses a split nut to engage with the threads. This means that every time the power feed is used, the nut is running directly on the threads of a lead screw of dubious quality. Eventually, it's going to get sloppy and there is only so much backlash you can compensate for. The list can go on a long time, just know that if you do take to the hobby in a big way, the lathe may dictate when you upgrade more than you do.
4. Bugger all for extras to start with. There will be upgrades that you'll want early on and possible need before you can start. With mine, I *had* to upgrade my tool post right off the bat. The post was too high to accept a 3/8 tool. (it's preferred size according to documentation, such as it was) leaving me with the options of getting more tooling in a smaller size, grinding down all my existing tooling, grinding the tool post down or getting a quick change tool post of some variety. I opted for a quick change tool post since it was what I was planning on doing eventually, but the lathe's manufacturing forced the issue.
5. Lousy documentation. Finding useful info for mine, at least, is an exercise in frustration. The majority of the available documentation has been written by the marketing department and technical specs are exceedingly hard to find. Yes, I understand that it has a quiet, brushless motor for powerful and silent operation. WHAT SIZE TAPER DOES THE HEADSTOCK USE!?!?!? (#3MT, it turns out)
In conclusion, super cheap discount lathes can be the right call for some people, but they aren't for everyone (one could argue most). If you just want to be making chips as early as possible, don't. Save up the cash and get something higher quality. I'm not qualified to make recommendations there, there are lots of excellent videos on YouTube about better brands than vevor. If it's just about the money (because who doesn't love a great deal) it's a bit more objective. By the time you've bought the lathe and the accessories that you need to make the experience as enjoyable as possible, the difference between a vevor lathe from amazon and a King Industries from KMS, isn't that great. It's just more spread out. (and I've heard it said that king isn't that great either) To see what I mean I can recommend this video here where he does a side by side of a Vevor lathe (different model from mine, but closely related) and a Precision Mathews. #NotSponsored. I got mine at 50% off because they model was being discontinued. Since then I have invested somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 and numerous hours to get the beast into a usable state. It's mostly been time and effort, but if I didn't already have the supplies on hand the price tag would have been much higher. Not everyone has water stones, diamond truing plates and lapping plate/compound kicking around, for example. That would have been an added expense, even sandpaper on a piece of glass or stone counter top would still cost a bit. Was it worth it to me? Yes. Is it worth it to you? probably not. If you do go for it, be aware that you are buying a project that looks suspiciously like a lathe.
cheers
Before I begin, a few caveats.
1. This reflects my own experience, so mileage may vary.
2. This is from a beginner to an absolute beginner who is looking to buy their first lathe or get into machining for the first time.
To start with; is getting a <$1000 lathe worth it? TL;DR: kinda* ** *** **** ***** ******* ********* ********* **************.
The big questions that you need to answer for yourself are:
1. What do you want the lathe to do? Do you want to join the church of Kozo Hiraoka and build a working steam locomotive? Do you want to machine your own parts for that 1957 Studebaker you keep telling your partner that you'll get out of the garage *this* year before winter hits.
2. How much is your time worth? With a cheap lathe comes a lot more work to get it tuned. The finishing will be a lot rougher and it may not even be usable right out of the box. Feeds may bind like crazy, motors may need to be reattached properly, gears may not even engage properly without some fine persuasion. Not to say that a more expensive lathe won't require tuning to get the most out of it, but one can safely expect it to not require hours of fiddling to get it to a usable state once it's had all the shipping grease clean off and it's bits oiled.
In my case, I needed to make tiny parts for a saxophone. (the thread for that adventure is in the current projects forum) and the criteria and circumstances that dictated my decision were as follows.
1. The parts I need have not been manufactured in any capacity since the 1950s
2. I have a very rare example of a saxophone with *ALL* it's original hardware. IYKYK
3. It was going to cost $500 for my local machine shop to make a crimping die for the one part that I didn't think I could do on my wood lathe (I now know exactly how naïve that idea was) and they weren't that excited to do it either.
4. I already had a reasonably well stocked woodshop and a metalworking drill press.
5. I suck at not spending money. So saving up for something better wasn't really an option.
6. I'm a mechanic by trade and have used engine lathes before. So I felt confident that I could figure out any rough edges.
7. My shop does not have 3 phase power and 220V would require some electrical work.
With that all in mind, what I needed was a compact lathe for turning ridiculously small parts that was close enough to $500 to make having a working machine at the end of it a net gain. I also acknowledged that I was buying a project in and of itself. I have been satisfied with what I got at the price I got it. It has been a learning experience and I do not regret a moment of it. Would I go the same route knowing what I know now? I'm not sure. If I'd had to pay full price, I probably would have gone a different route.
So, why should you buy a cheap AF mini lathe from amazon/vevor/princess auto/etc?
1. It is a lathe and it can do lathe things. During my early research I remember seeing someone saying in a forum that "any lathe is better than no lathe". This so true and as long as it will spin metal and break a chip, you can make probably it work.
2. Customization. When you get a super cheap lathe, you are buying pretty close to a bare chassis. There will be changes you want to make, but you will be making those changes to match your needs and wants.
3. You will learn a lot about yourself. Do you like to tinker with things, do you find enjoyment out of making a silk purse out of a sow's ear, do you want to dig right into the guts of your tools and get to know them intimately? These are questions that would be best answered before hand, but you will find answers within the first 4 hours of interacting with one of these machines. (allowing 3 hours for unboxing, disassembly, cleaning and reassembly)
4. You will learn about the value of the details that are intrinsic to machining. Nothing drives it home like spending 2 hours on a lapping plate to get your gibs to slide smoothly.
5. You aren't sure if machining is for you. It's a much lower barrier to entry than getting a Precision Mathews or other "name brand" machine. By the time you can make chips that are reasonably accurate, you'll know if this is for you.
Now, let talk about the draw backs of super cheap lathes.
1. There is a very good chance you will have to spend a lot of time right off the bat tuning it up to make it usable. Straight out of the box, odds are good that it won't do much more than have all the required bits to qualify as a lathe. ie there will be a chuck, a motor, a bed, tail stock, head stock and carriage. But anything beyond that is luck of the draw. In my case, the main carriage has been smooth and stable right from day one, but the compound and cross slides have been a persistent thorn that is slowly improving with time. The motor and headstock on mine have passed a cursory inspection and are functional, if not perfect. I've seen unboxing videos where this is not the case. So far, it's nothing that can't be fixed with some time, elbow grease and creative thinking. The bone of a lathe are there, they just may need some polish.
2. They are very limited in what they can do. I'm making parts that could be argued to be closer to watch making than "machining" so the limitations of mine have yet to rear their collective head for me. Those limitations come in the form of very limited swing, a distinct lack of power and questionable tailstock design. (at least for the vevor I have) This all translates to the largest diameter I can safely turn is 4" and that is pushing it. While I have managed to do some work on 4140 steel, it was very light passes, very sharp tooling and listening to the motor lug like a tractor that just found a lump of clay while plowing. Even a .010 cut on brass can make the motor audibly start to struggle.
3. Longevity. These are not going to survive to be passed on to grandkids. The design, the materials, everything about these lathes is built simple and cheap. (obviously) It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a plastic gear train isn't going to have the longevity of steel, but there are subtler design choices that will affect this too. In my case, the power feed clutch uses a split nut to engage with the threads. This means that every time the power feed is used, the nut is running directly on the threads of a lead screw of dubious quality. Eventually, it's going to get sloppy and there is only so much backlash you can compensate for. The list can go on a long time, just know that if you do take to the hobby in a big way, the lathe may dictate when you upgrade more than you do.
4. Bugger all for extras to start with. There will be upgrades that you'll want early on and possible need before you can start. With mine, I *had* to upgrade my tool post right off the bat. The post was too high to accept a 3/8 tool. (it's preferred size according to documentation, such as it was) leaving me with the options of getting more tooling in a smaller size, grinding down all my existing tooling, grinding the tool post down or getting a quick change tool post of some variety. I opted for a quick change tool post since it was what I was planning on doing eventually, but the lathe's manufacturing forced the issue.
5. Lousy documentation. Finding useful info for mine, at least, is an exercise in frustration. The majority of the available documentation has been written by the marketing department and technical specs are exceedingly hard to find. Yes, I understand that it has a quiet, brushless motor for powerful and silent operation. WHAT SIZE TAPER DOES THE HEADSTOCK USE!?!?!? (#3MT, it turns out)
In conclusion, super cheap discount lathes can be the right call for some people, but they aren't for everyone (one could argue most). If you just want to be making chips as early as possible, don't. Save up the cash and get something higher quality. I'm not qualified to make recommendations there, there are lots of excellent videos on YouTube about better brands than vevor. If it's just about the money (because who doesn't love a great deal) it's a bit more objective. By the time you've bought the lathe and the accessories that you need to make the experience as enjoyable as possible, the difference between a vevor lathe from amazon and a King Industries from KMS, isn't that great. It's just more spread out. (and I've heard it said that king isn't that great either) To see what I mean I can recommend this video here where he does a side by side of a Vevor lathe (different model from mine, but closely related) and a Precision Mathews. #NotSponsored. I got mine at 50% off because they model was being discontinued. Since then I have invested somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 and numerous hours to get the beast into a usable state. It's mostly been time and effort, but if I didn't already have the supplies on hand the price tag would have been much higher. Not everyone has water stones, diamond truing plates and lapping plate/compound kicking around, for example. That would have been an added expense, even sandpaper on a piece of glass or stone counter top would still cost a bit. Was it worth it to me? Yes. Is it worth it to you? probably not. If you do go for it, be aware that you are buying a project that looks suspiciously like a lathe.
cheers