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7x7 South Bend shaper, 2500, SK
- Thread starter phaxtris
- Start date
deleted_user
Super User
This is what working conditions would be like in Canada is some of the open for business elements had their way
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
7" stroke, 7" X travel
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
The irony is they do own boots. Honest. Been to India and Pakistan. They have these. Not expensive either. BUT they just love pain I guess - imagine some of these larger pieces falling on your bare foot when welding stick. For that reason I don't wear running shoes - even with a shoe and a sock its still not fun.
Its a cultural thing. Safety? What safety? You want to live forever? Never get Indian or Pakistani into a dare game - unless they go first.
Locals get confused when you start doing some unsafe stuff and/or do it rough. Through even I had a limit. I just did not find sheep shit when dry of suitable quality to be my main source of insulation for my pad / sleeping bag. Cow shit, OK I can dig that, but I place a line at little beef
LeakyCanoe
Active Member
I've read a lot about them and have 2 myself (one 16"model is to be sold off, and I will keep a 10" one for my new shop as it gets fully operational).
They are described as a 2D tool (aka - a linear version of a lathe). You can't produce a pocket with a shaper alone. They are good at things like slots, dovetails, gears, splines , etc. when working flat surfaces. You can do internal keyways/splines and this includes blind splines (apparently you do need to cut a chip relief) and it seems that a lot of machinists still seek shapers out for these reasons today. Cutting gears too. That, and the fact that they are just so damn cool and mesmerizing...just like power hacksaws. Even my wife is up for a demonstration of that !
Most guys though will get a mill over a shaper. Weight and footprint have a lot to do with that decision. For shops that need to make money the equation is not well stacked anymore for these machines...you need a good amount of set-up time, and time is money for these guys. But for this crowd, who is looking at machining stock from assorted sources, much of it rusty, then these machines rise-up since you don't need to wreck an expensive end mill that is in itself a one-trick pony job-wise in the process. You can make most of your own tooling in a custom fashion using odd bits of HSS...sharpen your own profile and away you go right away. If you have a rotary table and vise set-up your versatility is exponential.
Pricing is indeed very high right now...even here in machine-laden Southern Ontario. The hobby-sized ones will command over $1000 all day long, and the nicer ones will fetch over $ 2000. I think the bigger machines (16" + stroke) offer the best value but then they chew up more floor space too. And a lot of those are "sad bastards" that got set outside like the one in the resto thread that we have underway here on this forum now. I agree with Tom that the supply/demand imbalance means these prices are as strong now as anytime in the last 15 years and likely to stay decent. That might fluctuate somewhat, like all vintage machinery, but as the price of scrap goes up then that places a floor on them too. The big ones were once very plentiful, but most have long since been melted down.
Darren's SB is a beautiful specimen, BTW. And IMO it should command $ 2500 all day long in this market today. Someone will want that machine and pay up for it.
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
Yes, I was shocked about a year ago to see a big shaper on auction go for decent money, I think it was a 20" or something similar, big, go for well over 2000. More then 5 years ago I saw a 20" shaper or so go for less then scrap, like $150. But there are not many 20 - 24" shapers today, at least not in the US... As you mentioned, many got melted away. Yet metal as a hobby is taking off. I will not even mention stuff like blacksmithing that is going through the roof right now. Machines in the 6000lbs+ range are maybe wanted by few hobbyists BUT there are few of them.
For some specific tasks shapers are a good machine - but very few. If they were useless they would not be made in India and similar places.
Notice on that video a shaper would not be out of place. They could use some jig to make it cut a keyway all day long or similar job. Maybe not for a hydraulic cylinder but something else.
This is the one @kevin.decelles snagged......
canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
South Bend 7" Shaper - on Edmonton Kijiji
Hey Everyone, I know how hard it is to find a shaper in this province, and already have one now, so figured to share this ad for the Albertistan folks. Looks very nice, says he went through it completely. Considering the availability of these things it seems like a reasonable deal...
canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
Here is one in southern Ontario: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/...aper-16-model-in-running-condition/1602052102
I bought my Klopp 650 last year at auction for slifhtly more thanhalf what that guy is asking. Of course it also weighs 3 tonnes so I figured even if it was scrap I would not be out too much. It isn‘t scrap but does need some TLC. And a big enough shop of course. Glad I bought it but even more pleased with the price paid compared to current values.
@Scattered Parts , keep me in mind if you ever decide to liquidate 
Gearhead88
Super User
I've uncrated products that had been manufactured in India and shipped to Canada , the cheap low grade plywood used was this weird dark colour , mahogany ?? , I'm not sure but is wasn't so dark as to hide the black foot prints all over it , not boot prints ...... foot prints . I do not believe they have much for occupational health & safety standards there , so welding in bare feet happens , the guys who have flip flops just have a bit more style and fashion sense.
Lol, @kevin.decelles, you don't owe me anything. You're always to come by if you're in the neighborhood and either a cold beer or hot coffee would be readily available. I'm just glad to see the members here pick up equipment so it actually gets some love and proper use.
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
What DOES a gear grinder do? I know enough to be dangerous, an OEM Dana/Spicer gear set for an axle will have a range of measurements on the pinion, -2 +1 -3 etc, and I know the pinion matches the ring gear, for axles. You shouldn’t swap the gears around between sets. The markings help you get in the ballpark if you’re replacing stuff, if you took out a -2 set and replaced it with a +3 set there’s supposedly 5 thou difference to make up. (As an example)
But aftermarket gear sets don’t seem to have the same numbers nor do most GM gears? Yet I dragged some really expensive Swiss made gear grinder to GM in guelph last year. Is it a finishing operation for gears? Like lapping in valves?
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
Exactly as you siad in your post. . I no nothing about how automotive things fit together. I've been around machining tools and processes for over 50 years, so I've been exposed to a fair range.
I know this is taking the conversation way off the rails from a shaper for sale in Saskatchewan, but regarding the gears in especially hypoid/spiral bevel/amboid gear sets, the relationship of the pinion to the ring gear is very finicky. If you're slightly off the thing will whine and make noise at higher speeds. This is why when pinion bearings get worn you'll often get a whine in your diff.
Cutting the profile on these is ridiculously complex and for many years, at least in North America, the Gleason company was the bunch to get machines from to make rings & pinions. They are still huge in it but of course there are other companies around the world doing it too.
The thing is that you have to start with the pinion gear in the housing. You measure the inner pinion bearing surface in the housing to the centerline of the ring gear rotational axis using specialized arbors and an indicator to establish the location of the shoulder of the pinion inner bearing to the housing. Comparing your measurement to the nominal depth spec for your diff, you use the + or - marking on the pinion gear to establish what thickness of shim you need under the pinion head to the pinion inner bearing to establish its depth of engagement into the ring gear. Once the pinion is installed with preloaded bearings you should then be able to set the backlash, preload and rolling contact pattern (with contact marking paste) of the ring gear. All set correctly the gearset should run quietly.
GM and AAM axles have marks on some, if no mark you assume nominal depth (I was at GM dealers for a few years). Dodge now has used AAM axles for a number of years too. Only built a few Ford diffs over the years, and only a couple Toyotas.
To make this level of precision in a complex contour like a hypoid/spiral bevel/amboid gearset requires a seriously special machine which is why they're seriously expensive. I can only imagine what a Swiss one would cost, lol! Of course gear grinders are used for spur gears too but just touching on diff gearsets and the like here.
I know some people aren't as into YouTube but here are a few links that might help illustrate.
Sorry if this was too long winded or didn't answer your question the way you guys were looking for, but I've always been fascinated by gears and gearing. Part of why I enjoyed working on transmissions and powertrains when I was pulling wrenches.
Cutting the profile on these is ridiculously complex and for many years, at least in North America, the Gleason company was the bunch to get machines from to make rings & pinions. They are still huge in it but of course there are other companies around the world doing it too.
The thing is that you have to start with the pinion gear in the housing. You measure the inner pinion bearing surface in the housing to the centerline of the ring gear rotational axis using specialized arbors and an indicator to establish the location of the shoulder of the pinion inner bearing to the housing. Comparing your measurement to the nominal depth spec for your diff, you use the + or - marking on the pinion gear to establish what thickness of shim you need under the pinion head to the pinion inner bearing to establish its depth of engagement into the ring gear. Once the pinion is installed with preloaded bearings you should then be able to set the backlash, preload and rolling contact pattern (with contact marking paste) of the ring gear. All set correctly the gearset should run quietly.
GM and AAM axles have marks on some, if no mark you assume nominal depth (I was at GM dealers for a few years). Dodge now has used AAM axles for a number of years too. Only built a few Ford diffs over the years, and only a couple Toyotas.
To make this level of precision in a complex contour like a hypoid/spiral bevel/amboid gearset requires a seriously special machine which is why they're seriously expensive. I can only imagine what a Swiss one would cost, lol! Of course gear grinders are used for spur gears too but just touching on diff gearsets and the like here.
I know some people aren't as into YouTube but here are a few links that might help illustrate.
Sorry if this was too long winded or didn't answer your question the way you guys were looking for, but I've always been fascinated by gears and gearing. Part of why I enjoyed working on transmissions and powertrains when I was pulling wrenches.
