Why Would I Want/Need a Surface Grinder?

[Tecnico]

OK people, there’s a K O Lee surface grinder in the market in my neighbourhood that’s priced very attractively, why would I really need (want) a SG?

What I read says it’s bad news in the same room as a mill or lathe etc. because of the dust, how did you handle that if partitions aren’t in the cards?

It is said to be running, what do I look for to know if it’s worth dragging home of walking away?

What kind of a black hole is a SG for $? What needs to be bought to run it?

Thanks

D 😎

 

[jorogi]

What is this word "need" ?
When I got mine it came with several different wheels and I have only had to buy one so far. I made my own wrenches and pullers for it. I had the coolant for it already. The hydraulics needed topping up. So not much cost at all.
Using coolant while grinding keeps the dust down and a vacuum can handle things when you dress the wheel.
One of my favorite tools.

 

[Susquatch]

Need has nothing to do with it unless you are a business.

I have a KO Lee 6x12. It's wonderful for how I use it.

I don't use coolant or curtains. If I'm doing a lot of grinder work (very very very seldom) I might throw a cover blanket over my lathe and mill. Usually I just use it. The exhaust points sideways to my other machines.

It does throw a lot of dust even with light use. Sometimes I put a shop vac on the exhaust. That might make things worse but I don't think so.

 

[MrWhoopee]

I was fortunate to have the foresight to partition my lathe and mill from my welding area when I first got the machines. Even with that, the grinding dust was beginning to cover everything in the welding area. I found a Boyar-Schultz dust collector that mounts to the end of the table and connects to a shop vac. It takes care of 90%+ of the dust as long as I can tolerate the noise of the shop vac.

 

[Tecnico]

Back to the lead in, why would I need/want a SC? What can I make with it that I can’t do “good enough” with other machines?

Because I can is real, that’s why I have 2 lathes but what would I need it for?

Thanks.

D 😎

 

[justin1]

Back to the lead in, why would I need/want a SC? What can I make with it that I can’t do “good enough” with other machines?

Because I can is real, that’s why I have 2 lathes but what would I need it for?

Thanks.

D 😎

If it's a good price you can really go wrong with em aslong as they aren't too worn out and spindle bearing arnt cooked. And worn out is loose term depends on what tolerances you want even a worn out machine should get you into the tenths on small parts.

Ideally it comes with mag chuck and few extra wheel hubs.

You can make wheel balancer and arbor or they can be found on fleabay sometimes for ok price.

Other stuff to consider is
sin plate magnetic or not.
Tool makers vise.
Magnetic parallels
Magnetic vee blocks
Angle diamond dresser
Radius diamond dresser
Flat dresser
Spin fixtures are nice addition (harig punch grinder or anything really)

You can pretty much make most of this stuff if you wanted. if you like to sharpen your own lathe cutters you can make jigs for touching them up.

Wheels arnt too expensive and last good amount of time if your just flat grind if you start dressing them on angles and different shapes it can wear them out fast.

Nice thing about surface grinders is you can make precision jigs for milling machine or just making nice surface finish on projects you can makes.

They generally don't take up much space so if you have the space and don't mind using shop vac for dust collector or better yet proper dust collector i don't use my grinder every day but I use if often enough I don't regret buying it.

Also can use it to make precision ground flat stones which are nice around the shop.

Few pictures of stuff I did with my surface grinder that I have on the phone

Edit.

O ye as for money hole it's no worse then milling machine depends what you want to do with it. Making parts flat is about as cheap as it gets. Wanting to make parts with complex angles and radiuses I think is still reasonable cost wise. But like any machine you can dive into real specific speciality stuff that all requires specialty accessories that can cost a shit ton of you want to keep .0001 tolerances making stuff round. Harig no1 punch grinder will drop your jaw to the floor if you want to buy one new. same as anything suburban tools sells new for surface grinders. Still can be bit pricey for that stuff even used but unless you need it now or plan to make money? with your machine. you can sometimes get that stuff used for cost of another surface grinder.

 

[jorogi]

Back to the lead in, why would I need/want a SC?

Um, it's a tool ?

 

[Don Sipes]

Because in the end life's a grind and you need appropriate tools.

 

[Chipper5783]

I have my machines all in one room. The SG is probably ~30’ from the lathes and mills. The machine shops I have been in do not have a separate room for the surface grinder. As Susq said, it is not as if a one man multi use shop is going to be running the grinder a thousand hours a year. I’ll bet I do more surface grinding than most (and less than some) - perhaps 20 hours a year. So apply a little common sense about what direction you’re sending the sparks (or coolant mist) - and then don’t sweat it.

I grind any blocky square parts for a nice finish and to have every surface be legitimate as a reference surface. Recent examples are: tool holder blocks for the CNC lathe, components for the Howell radius turning attachment, soft jaws for the mill vises, jaw blanks for a big 3J chuck.

If you have a tool, and learn to use it, than you will find uses for it. A SG can be pretty handy. I found I had to up my game as far as measuring and determining squareness. After an hour of experience I felt I was a rock star, after a month I felt I knew practically nothing.

WEAR A RESPIRATOR. Small metal particles and a little abrasive grit in the shop, is not a big deal - put that in your lungs and it certainly could be a big deal.

 

[Martin w]

You may get different mileage, but this is why I wanted a surface grinder. Mine is actually a tool cutter grinder, but I also use it as a surface grinder.
When fitting a keyway, you can get it pretty much perfect, very quickly.
For getting very high tolerances on angled parts.
For sharpening carbide saw blades. I have taken 15 thou off the width of a horizontal cutter to fit a slot I needed to make on multiple parts
For grinding angles on tool cutters, e.g. grinding a 60-degree threading cutter or 29-degree Acme or making a .80 mm external retaining ring cutter
For fitting shims or spacers
I haven't yet, but you can sharpen a tap or reamer
After my mills and lathe, it is the most used. Sometimes it is used the most depending on who I am doing a job for.
Martin W

 

[Susquatch]

Why would I really need (want) a SG?

I was waiting for others to chime in because I know I don't get full use out of mine and I'd love to hear what others do with theirs. Fundamentally, surface grinders make precision surfaces. The height dial is typically calibrated in 10ths and its not hard to hit a 10ths target. Typically, mine is used to make tools for my tools! I have not used mine to sharpen tools, but I'd like to. Here is what I have used mine for:

1. Making identical custom gauge blocks. Buy the regular stuff cuz they are cheap. But custom stuff is expensive so make it instead.

2. A set of height blocks to set a sine plate. They can be stamped with the angle they make.

3. Three identical 3.5" blocks to raise a brake disk above my vise on my mill table for tramming. Grinding all 3 at once guarantees equal height and parallel surfaces. The exact height isn't important, but equal height and parallel is.

4. Making drop dead gorgeous very flat surfaces on larger parts - beautiful mirror like surfaces. It seems like most of my surfaces were good enough before I got the grinder. Now everything needs grinding.... LOL!

5. Making custom height parallels.

5. Making angle blocks

7. Making balances - you can make your own balancer for the wheel. An unbalanced wheel is good enough to make a balancer! You can always go back and improve the finish after you use it to balance the wheel.

8. Matching surfaces. Perhaps matching head and block on a small engine but I have not done that. I have matched two sliding surfaces though.

I can't wait to hear what others are doing.

It is said to be running, what do I look for to know if it’s worth dragging home of walking away?

A good spindle, good ways, and smooth cranks.

Make sure you block the spindle and bed for travel.

What kind of a black hole is a SG for $? What needs to be bought to run it?

Not nearly like a mill or a lathe.

Should come with a mag vise
Various Wheels
Wheel Balancer
More 10ths metrology - LOL!
Diamond Wheel Dresser
Wheel arbours (this adds up)
Wheel wrenches
Grinding vises
Angle grinding vise
Vacuum to catch the dust
5C Tooling holder & collets
With 3 ground in set angles
Table based dust shield

Looking forward to hearing what others have and use.

 

[Mcgyver]

Why? Far greater accuracy (dimensional and flatness) and finish that other machines, work with hardened material.

What do you need? Mag chuck, diamond dresser and flood (submersible pump and 5gal pail works fine). Over the years I've acquired angle and radius dressers, mag sine plates, vises, hold downs, mag V blocks and parallels, pin grinders etc. 98.5% of the times its just the mag chuck.... and that is from someone you uses it all the time. After the mag chuck, a VFD for soft starts and stops - stops the wheel from moving

Dust? imo, not an issue.....
1) except for dressing, almost everything coming off is chips not abrasive. Wheels wear very slowly.
2) it's when you dress it when it's a problem. I turn down the rpm and put a cardboard box over the the wheel head.
3) there are actually few way surfaces exposed to abrasive dust falling out of the air, so when dressing I cover any nearby ones
4) flood coolant is a must imo which also keeps the dust way down.

Some photos (just to be a good enabler 🙂 )

finish, flatless, squareness etc to a high standard on tooling



after scraping one side, the other is quickly ground



using the side of the wheel to grind a small angled surface on a dovetail - yes you can use the side of the wheel!



One of a match pair of case hardened tool makers block (outsourced the case hardening) ground square and parallel to a 10th - if you are making tool you kind of need to be able to work to tighter tolerances than the parts you expect to make with the tooling. Also, with an SG you can create squareness on tooling like this without a vise or angle plate.

 

[MrWhoopee]

Why? My surface grinder has shown just how imprecise my most careful mill work is.

 

[MrWhoopee]

View attachment 69598

A friend who was a machine designer once told me "anything can be over-engineered". This stop is proof.

 

[Susquatch]

A friend who was a machine designer once told me "anything can be over-engineered". This stop is proof.

It's only money.

 

[Mcgyver]

A friend who was a machine designer once told me "anything can be over-engineered". This stop is proof.

No, it's engineered to do exact what I wanted it to do, no more no less; That is to provide an adjustable and repeatable X axis reference stop anywhere in three axes accurate to better than a thou.

You know how once you have the fix jaw lined up and zero'd, how convenient it is as reference? don't need the edge finder because you know where zero is on the Y? This does same for you, with three axis positioning for the X axis.