JReimer
Well-Known Member
Someone needs to check this out
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/805663884604242/?mibextid=dXMIcH
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/805663884604242/?mibextid=dXMIcH
Watch lathe $1000 abbotsford B.C
- Thread starter JReimer
- Start date
CUTE! I love it!
A WW pattern lathe like that is not worth that money on a very good day.
IMO, the lathe itself is maybe a couple hundred bucks tops, and very dependent on the condition and type of bearings (may have plain bearings or ball bearings) I'd figure one fifty for the three jaw chuck, and maybe same or a wee bit more for the two axis slide rest. The accessories are the better part of the value of the package.
Not a very useful tool without having to add a LOT of money worth in additional accessories, which are worth considerably more than the lathe itself is. Even WITH a bucket of the accessories, it is not a very general purpose lathe, in my experience.
I have one quite similar, better tooled, and have been down that rabbit hole, playing with watches and clocks...
IMO, the lathe itself is maybe a couple hundred bucks tops, and very dependent on the condition and type of bearings (may have plain bearings or ball bearings) I'd figure one fifty for the three jaw chuck, and maybe same or a wee bit more for the two axis slide rest. The accessories are the better part of the value of the package.
Not a very useful tool without having to add a LOT of money worth in additional accessories, which are worth considerably more than the lathe itself is. Even WITH a bucket of the accessories, it is not a very general purpose lathe, in my experience.
I have one quite similar, better tooled, and have been down that rabbit hole, playing with watches and clocks...
That lathe is plane bearing as almost all are. The Boley 82 & 83 and some Levins are 8mm exceptions. That lathe uses the standard 45 & 3 double taper bearing. They are generally so well made they last forever (unless some knuckle dragger doesn't oil it properly) as there no metal to metal contact. I've got several well over 100 years old and there is zero wear. It shouldn't be a concern, I've had apart probably 20 and haven't one with destroyed bearings yet. The only performance disadvantage of plane is speed, and of course replacement if ever needed (impossible for plane bearing lathes). I've several of both types and if anything you could argue the plain bearing are more accurate and robust, but its splitting hairs. Speed isn't an issue, despite how small the work is. A watchmaker would typically run less than 1500 rpm (speed is actually reduced from there a lot of the time to control the removal rate)
On price, I agree with your values, partially based on the condition of the slide rest and the brand. Its a Peerless which is not considered a top brand or at least doesn't command the larger prices. Maybe 500-600 for the package max? Like so many things, prices are very brand dependent. If it was a Boley or Lorch it could well be 1000 cdn or more if if good nick. (Edit, although a quick look at ebay solds shows Peerless achieving some high prices, so who knows?). For such brands the slides can sell for over 500 cdn if really clean- for example a Boley slide rest just sold for 910 us$ (super clean) and another for 385 us (not as nice). Chuck, 200-400, depending on condition - a Boley just went for 521 us$. Heck a good Unimat chuck will fetch 150 cdn. Personally I see nothing lacking with the Peerless lathes and if you could get it for $500 it would set one up quite well. Keep another $1000 back for the full set of collets
.I agree that outside of watchmaking, a watchmakers lathe is of limited value.....but that comes with some context. You can't make a balance staff with a slide rest; that is hand graver work. As that, plus polished pivots and repivoting, are the most common uses a watchmaker puts it to, 99% were not sold with the slide rest....and as such aren't much use outside of horology. However, with a slide rest, they start to become useful as a more general purpose small little lathe.
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Mine is a Ball Bearing equipped, Marshal Peerless lathe, with the head and tailstock overlapping the lathe bed, rather than relying upon the center groove. So, they go 'down' instead of flaring up as the one in the advert does.
Mine came with a 3 jaw, a faceplate with pump center, a 3 axis slide rest, hand rest, about sixty collets, two sets of external step collets, a collet holding tailstock, and a few other parts, and nowhere near the amount of finish damage this one has. I still figure it would be a stretch to pull the money asked for this one, out of mine. Meh. We can all have our opinions.
WW lathes are a very select tool, and it is hard to avoid falling for the need to collect "All" the accessories for one. I have several Watch Supply House catalogs from the heyday of American Pocket Watches, and the pictures and descriptions of the tooling available is pretty amazing! Fun to keep an eye out for bargains, but I cannot really justify the prices of the rarely used or even, in their own time, bought accessories just so i can have them.
Mine came with a 3 jaw, a faceplate with pump center, a 3 axis slide rest, hand rest, about sixty collets, two sets of external step collets, a collet holding tailstock, and a few other parts, and nowhere near the amount of finish damage this one has. I still figure it would be a stretch to pull the money asked for this one, out of mine. Meh. We can all have our opinions.
WW lathes are a very select tool, and it is hard to avoid falling for the need to collect "All" the accessories for one. I have several Watch Supply House catalogs from the heyday of American Pocket Watches, and the pictures and descriptions of the tooling available is pretty amazing! Fun to keep an eye out for bargains, but I cannot really justify the prices of the rarely used or even, in their own time, bought accessories just so i can have them.
I thought I agreed with you on the price lol? otoh what its worth to you or me is a bit of different topic that what its worth in the market. Yours would I think easily fetch in excess of this guys ask. Some of them have really gone nuts. There was a very extensive Boley set that just went for something like 16,000 cdn.
. I've a few that would rival that in completeness and condition, but man, I had no idea any of them were fetching those sorts of prices!That has to be a rarity, if you have got some photos, I'd like to see it.
I get caught up in it as well, pride of ownership etc.....whatever, its all for kicks so is all good. Over the years i've bought out a few watchmakers estates, and for the guys who actually used their tools to make parts to fix watches..... vs being a toolaholic, most of the time its a straight forward lathe, graver rest and some collets. Even without every collet, you can centre the balance staff on wax chuck (using shellac), which is more accurate than a collet. Drilling is done with a hand held pin vise after making a centre mark with a graver (which is a neat trick to learn)
Once you start adding things like the slide rest and other bits they become very capable machines for general, albeit miniature, machining tasks. At least imo. Sounds like you have a pretty good set up, you don't find it useful when miniature stuff needs to be machined?
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Dunno that pics of my WW pattern lathe would be all that interesting, really.I thought I agreed with you on the price lol? otoh what its worth to you or me is a bit of different topic that what its worth in the market. Yours would I think easily fetch in excess of this guys ask. Some of them have really gone nuts. There was a very extensive Boley set that just went for something like 16,000 cdn.
That has to be a rarity, if you have got some photos, I'd like to see it.
I get caught up in it as well, pride of ownership etc.....whatever, its all for kicks so is all good. Over the years i've bought out a few watchmakers estates, and for the guys who actually used their tools to make parts to fix watches..... vs being a toolaholic, most of the time its a straight forward lathe, graver rest and some collets. Even without every collet, you can centre the balance staff on wax chuck (using shellac), which is more accurate than a collet. Drilling is done with a hand held pin vise after making a centre mark with a graver (which is a neat trick to learn)
Once you start adding things like the slide rest and other bits they become very capable machines for general, albeit miniature, machining tasks. At least imo. Sounds like you have a pretty good set up, you don't find it useful when miniature stuff needs to be machined?
It just looks sorta.... normal...
Just that its a small dilemma, in that I've not seen a Peerless with ball bearings and the odd one (like a Rivett R1) that does have them would not be what I call looking normal (compared to almost all other ww's) given the extra room needed. otoh I think of you as someone who knows what they're doing so am wondering what I'm missing and why you think its ball bearing. I'd either learn something new or you'd learn it is plane (so you'd know to oil it etc). Have you had the spindle out?
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I'll dig it and the camera out tonight and try to get a picture up.
I have not had the spindle out, just pulled the cover off and can see the bearing races.
As far as pulling in money, the Levin machines seem to be some of the best at that, though I have seen some really big Boley kits pull down high prices. It's been a bunch of years since I was really paying attention, though.
I have not had the spindle out, just pulled the cover off and can see the bearing races.
As far as pulling in money, the Levin machines seem to be some of the best at that, though I have seen some really big Boley kits pull down high prices. It's been a bunch of years since I was really paying attention, though.
Or I could walk over and get this one for $400
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That looks more like mine, with the collet holding tailstock, and while it does not have the baby overhead drive unit (for powering pivot grinders and the like), or a sewing machine pedal to vary the speed, it does have the very basics.
I still don't think it is worth much, with the lack of accessories!
That motor mount looks a right kludge!
I still don't think it is worth much, with the lack of accessories!
That motor mount looks a right kludge!