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Washing Macchine Motor + PCB

architect

Super User
My 14 year told GE Top Loaded washer stopped agitating and spinning. The motor PCB is suppose to continously blink green if all is good but that wasn't going on. to I'm not so good with electrical and through some online guides and found no power coming from the wiring harness to the PCB. I traced the problem to the dead inline 10a 125v fuse that was blocking contuity.

PXL_20240127_180151797.jpg

I replaced this with a ceramic 240v 10a slow fuse inside an inline holder.

1707708887268.jpeg

I plugged the machine back in and as soon as I turned it on, a bit of smoke and burnt came from the motor PCB. There is still power and contunuity to the wiring harness leading to the motor PCB so I suspect the fuse is fine.

PXL_20240210_185429323.MP.jpg

Does anyone understand what happened? Did the PCB short because of the 240v instead of 125v fuse rating, or because it's a slow blow?

Can a bad bearing cause this? My washing machine has been spinning quite loudly for awhile now, but I've never found play in the basket or other obvious signs like broken rubb

I found a used motor with PCB from eBay for $170 and can do a swap but not sure if this eliminates the problem?

The significant other wants me to stop fiddling and just buy our family a new machine :p Thoughts on whether it's worth swapping with motor/pcb or is this not the root problem?
 

combustable herbage

Ultra Member
Premium Member
My gut thought is walk away from this and get a new machine 14 years old, something blew the fuse the first time and something smoked in the board, 2 for 2 putting in a new board is likely to end in the same result, unless you can clearly find what is causing the overcurrent. I watched a technician shotgun fix our warranty machine costing extra time waiting for parts, the extended time without a washing machine was not a pleasant time.
 

Tecnico

(Dave)
IMHO your machine may be 14 years old but it’s worth digging a bit to see if there’s more life in it.

Since it’s 14 years old you won’t be the first to run into this problem so I’d suggest a Google search on the symptoms might turn up some useful information. If you’ve tried it and that’s not useful then @combustable herbage is probably on the right track…..

In case you don’t know, your machine as well as Whirlpool, Maytag, Inglis and a bunch of others are made by Electrolux so under the skin they’re more or less the same machine so there has to be a pretty large knowledge base out there.

There are parts catalog/manuals out there on the Electrolux site too. You can’t get there directly but if I recall, searching model number or manual number gets you there through a side door.

Good luck!

D :cool:
 

DPittman

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Well you probably will go about fixing it just like most other "repairmen" would also....a bit of a "shotgun" approach as mentioned above. As @Tecnico above mentioned you might be able to fine tune your target problem with some internet searching. Unless it becomes quite obvious where exactly the problem is, I'd be tempted to start with a new machine again. They don't make appliances like they used to. I am nearing the same dilemma with a dishwasher.
 
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boilerhouse

Ultra Member
In case you don’t know, your machine as well as Whirlpool, Maytag, Inglis and a bunch of others are made by Electrolux so under the skin they’re more or less the same machine so there has to be a pretty large knowledge base out there.

There are parts catalog/manuals out there on the Electrolux site too. You can’t get there directly but if I recall, searching model number or manual number gets you there through a side door.

Are you sure about that? I just went through buying a new washer/dryer, and understood that Electrolux is a stand alone Swedish company, Whirlpool (that do make Maytag and others) is American owned, and GE Appliance is owned by Haier, a Chinese company.

If I had to rate washers , which are more trouble prone than dryers, the best, by far, is Speed Queen, although also expensive, then Electrolux seems to be roughly rated 2nd, then LG third. My so called "research" was me watching several You Tube videos posted by appliance repair people.

If you can identify and fix the exact problem, probably the way to go, but I would not blindly replace parts and hope for the best. You will be into it for hundreds of dollars and still have a non functioning machine. Our new front loading LG was $800.
 

architect

Super User
I looked up my specific model gsbe5600k2ww and it seems to be a GE/Maytag "commercial" washer that came with my new construciton house, but found very little information. I tried to follow these more general guidelines to get me where I am now.


This is how I'm thinking that the PCB and Motor needs to be swapped. However, I'm not electrical inclined so I have no idea how to determine where the source of the problem is. I had thought something external caused the fuse to blow and now it looks like something else is causing the motor PCB to blow. At this point what else can do that other than replace the board and motor? What else can blow the fuse and PCB?

My thought was just to replace the washer but not sure how "good" the models today are. Not like my model was old enough to be that great anyway?

I'm still tempted to try a new motor/pcb shipped to my door for 170$ but maybe this is foolish like it has been pointed out...
 

Susquatch

Ultra Member
Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Does anyone understand what happened? Did the PCB short because of the 240v instead of 125v fuse rating, or because it's a slow blow?

I am on the same page as @combustable herbage. It's an old machine and they don't last. But a few comments are in order.

BAD idea to replace a fuse with one of a different rating. In this application, the voltage doesn't matter. It's mostly the current rating (Amps) that matters. But slow blow has the same effect as a higher amperage fuse and can also cause problems.

I got a $90k tractor for $45k because the previous owner played musical chairs with fuses. The dealer couldn't fix it. So I got a deal. I ended up redoing most of the wiring harness. My diagnosis is that a simple short in the headlamp wiring caused the fuse to blow and he got tired of replacing it and started swapping fuses. At some point a bigger fuse started melting wires buried in a harness. It didn't help that the wiring diagram for the tractor was wrong. I found that by reverse engineering the harness.

In your case, something was drawing excessive current and the fuse did its job to protect the circuit. When you installed a higher current slow blow fuse, you removed that protection and the high draw was allowed to let the magic smoke out.

You must find the high draw fault first.

You already have the motor and control board so you might as well try it. As others have said, it's amazing what a Google search (I'm no YouTube fanboy) will turn up. But put the proper size fuse in first. Since you already installed a fuse holder, that is as easy as putting the correct amperage fuse in there (not voltage). No slow blow this time either.

All the above said, the latest washers just don't last as long as the old washers did. Based on my own family's anecdotal experience, 10 - 12 years is pretty normal. All of my kids are handy. They all tried to fix them and they all wasted their time and money on efforts to extend their lives. It's always the beginning of the end with an ongoing stream of problems to fix, only to end up buying a new washer anyway.
 

architect

Super User
I am on the same page as @combustable herbage. It's an old machine and they don't last. But a few comments are in order.

BAD idea to replace a fuse with one of a different rating. In this application, the voltage doesn't matter. It's mostly the current rating (Amps) that matters. But slow blow has the same effect as a higher amperage fuse and can also cause problems.

I got a $90k tractor for $45k because the previous owner played musical chairs with fuses. The dealer couldn't fix it. So I got a deal. I ended up redoing most of the wiring harness. My diagnosis is that a simple short in the headlamp wiring caused the fuse to blow and he got tired of replacing it and started swapping fuses. At some point a bigger fuse started melting wires buried in a harness. It didn't help that the wiring diagram for the tractor was wrong. I found that by reverse engineering the harness.

In your case, something was drawing excessive current and the fuse did its job to protect the circuit. When you installed a higher current slow blow fuse, you removed that protection and the high draw was allowed to let the magic smoke out.

You must find the high draw fault first.

You already have the motor and control board so you might as well try it. As others have said, it's amazing what a Google search (I'm no YouTube fanboy) will turn up. But put the proper size fuse in first. Since you already installed a fuse holder, that is as easy as putting the correct amperage fuse in there (not voltage). No slow blow this time either.

All the above said, the latest washers just don't last as long as the old washers did. Based on my own family's anecdotal experience, 10 - 12 years is pretty normal. All of my kids are handy. They all tried to fix them and they all wasted their time and money on efforts to extend their lives. It's always the beginning of the end with an ongoing stream of problems to fix, only to end up buying a new washer anyway.

I didn't buy the motor/PCB board yet but thought it MIGHT be worth the try for $170 but maybe not...

I got some wrong online advice on reddit that said 240v would be fine instead of 125v since matching the 10amp is all that matters, and that I should go slow blow for a washer.

It sounds like where I am now is not worth even to replace it with a fast blow 125v 10a fuse, and I should just stop here and get a new one washer?

I don't think I have the know-how to find high draw fault as I'm clueless with electrical.
 

jcdammeyer

John
Premium Member
My two cents after my fridge experience.
First of all I blew up the fridge motor controller board by not using an isolation transformer when I started probing the electronics and the replacement capacitors had not yet arrived. So ultimately the fridge cost $400 to repair but considering replacements were in the $2K range still not a bad deal.

Now why did the fridge controller die? Simple. The controller board was in essence a VFD for the 3 phase compressor motor. And over time the electrolytic capacitors used on these boards develop a high effective series resistance (ESR). A new cap might have 0.2 ohms. When the ESR test meter arrived the caps on the boards were in the neighbourhood of 8 ohms. or more. Because of this high ESR the switching circuit cannot switch fast enough to create the required voltages and then the motor drive fails.

Even though my screw up caused the board to fail (likely high voltage into the processor) I did put the replacement caps onto the board and connected it up to AC power. Sure enough a DC voltage that before was about 4V rose to the required 9V level. In other words had I not been impatient and waited for the parts and just replaced them things would likely have been fixed.

Same with a Marantz Stereo I'm rebuilding. The power supply is linear, not switching but the low AC hum in the speakers is due to failed capacitors. I have them. Just have to check off the other 42 projects because I can get to that one.

SO the real reason most of the newer washers, fridges etc fail is because they use electronics to control the motors. And I'd guess 99% of the time the capacitors age internally and although they don't bulge or crack or leak they are no longer as effective. I've seen people resurrect old motherboards by swapping out all the caps for the same reason.

My two cents.
 

architect

Super User
If I und
My two cents after my fridge experience.
First of all I blew up the fridge motor controller board by not using an isolation transformer when I started probing the electronics and the replacement capacitors had not yet arrived. So ultimately the fridge cost $400 to repair but considering replacements were in the $2K range still not a bad deal.

Now why did the fridge controller die? Simple. The controller board was in essence a VFD for the 3 phase compressor motor. And over time the electrolytic capacitors used on these boards develop a high effective series resistance (ESR). A new cap might have 0.2 ohms. When the ESR test meter arrived the caps on the boards were in the neighbourhood of 8 ohms. or more. Because of this high ESR the switching circuit cannot switch fast enough to create the required voltages and then the motor drive fails.

Even though my screw up caused the board to fail (likely high voltage into the processor) I did put the replacement caps onto the board and connected it up to AC power. Sure enough a DC voltage that before was about 4V rose to the required 9V level. In other words had I not been impatient and waited for the parts and just replaced them things would likely have been fixed.

Same with a Marantz Stereo I'm rebuilding. The power supply is linear, not switching but the low AC hum in the speakers is due to failed capacitors. I have them. Just have to check off the other 42 projects because I can get to that one.

SO the real reason most of the newer washers, fridges etc fail is because they use electronics to control the motors. And I'd guess 99% of the time the capacitors age internally and although they don't bulge or crack or leak they are no longer as effective. I've seen people resurrect old motherboards by swapping out all the caps for the same reason.

My two cents.
If I understand you correctly, the problem for my washer might be the PCB for the motor, and potentially changing both will solve the issue? In my case the motor and PCB are sold together anyway especially used so whether I need to replace one or both components works out practically the same. Now I'm more tempted to try and see what a used motor and PCB would look like.... There's a used on ebay for $110 but $60 to ship across thr border...
 

Engmaxx

(Michael)
I keep all my appliances alive until something catastrophic vs age pushes me to replace. My Kenmore Elite front load washer and dryer from 2001 are still working because of the work I do on them and how quickly it can be done. Most parts are available same day because it is Whirlpool. That said, the wife wants new when they go next. I will at least get a couple of motors, SS perforated tub and a huge pulley out of the deal!
 

jcdammeyer

John
Premium Member
If I und

If I understand you correctly, the problem for my washer might be the PCB for the motor, and potentially changing both will solve the issue? In my case the motor and PCB are sold together anyway especially used so whether I need to replace one or both components works out practically the same. Now I'm more tempted to try and see what a used motor and PCB would look like.... There's a used on ebay for $110 but $60 to ship across thr border...
With the fuse and smoke it's likely your original controller may not be repairable. The discussion had migrated into machines not lasting more than 12 years or so. I suspect capacitors are the biggest reason since now even washing machines tend to vary the speed and are likely also 3 phase brushless motors.
 

Tecnico

(Dave)
Are you sure about that? I just went through buying a new washer/dryer, and understood that Electrolux is a stand alone Swedish company, Whirlpool (that do make Maytag and others) is American owned, and GE Appliance is owned by Haier, a Chinese company.

If I had to rate washers , which are more trouble prone than dryers, the best, by far, is Speed Queen, although also expensive, then Electrolux seems to be roughly rated 2nd, then LG third. My so called "research" was me watching several You Tube videos posted by appliance repair people.

If you can identify and fix the exact problem, probably the way to go, but I would not blindly replace parts and hope for the best. You will be into it for hundreds of dollars and still have a non functioning machine. Our new front loading LG was $800.

OK, you've got me on that one! :oops: I was thinking about looking up info on a Frigidaire washer and I had found the info on the Electrolux ftp site. I was forgetting that it was a Frigidaire....... That particular washer doesn't get my vote for a good machine.

Whirlpool however does own the brands for Maytag and Inglis (which was an independent CDN company until 2001) and have made appliances for Sears Canada (Kenmore). I have a Whirlpool made Kenmore fridge.

Not sure if this helps @architect at all but I see that, according to Bloomberg, Camco Inc. makes GE appliances in Canada. They also make Hotpoint, Moffat and McClary and "house" branded appliances for department stores in Canada. Don't know about the Haier/GE connection, perhaps that's outside Canada?

D :cool:
 
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