-
Scam Alert. Members are reminded to NOT send money to buy anything. Don't buy things remote and have it shipped - go get it yourself, pay in person, and take your equipment with you. Scammers have burned people on this forum. Urgency, secrecy, excuses, selling for friend, newish members, FUD, are RED FLAGS. A video conference call is not adequate assurance. Face to face interactions are required. Please report suspicions to the forum admins. Stay Safe - anyone can get scammed.
Wanted: CNC Mill
- Thread starter Janger
- Start date
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
It was like 2012 or something and went for 15k plus fees or so.
I think one should get a bit older model say 2005 for around 10k + fees which seems fair price.
That was around 2 years ago.
Project mills usually go for around 1000 + fees or whereabouts - same as project lathes.
There was one large CNC lathe that went for 150k plus fees and there were multiple CNC machines so the people present knew what they are doing.
I think one should get a bit older model say 2005 for around 10k + fees which seems fair price.
That was around 2 years ago.
Project mills usually go for around 1000 + fees or whereabouts - same as project lathes.
There was one large CNC lathe that went for 150k plus fees and there were multiple CNC machines so the people present knew what they are doing.
Here is a Haas super mini mill. https://www.machinetools.com/en/for...aign=FSU&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=MTUpdate
I've spent quite a bit of time looking for a smaller vmc (around 6k lbs) and every now and then something comes up but never that cheap.. At least in this part of the world. If you're buying used it may be worthwhile to look in the southeastern states as they seem to have all the machines. Just the other day I was looking at the syil x7 combo specs, compared to the tormach options the syil seems a lot better for about the same money. Higher hp spindle, linear rails instead of dovetails, servos, etc.. But I still think the jump from one of those smaller hobby grade machines to a Haas mini mill isn't huge (if I remember right it's about 1.5x the cost) and the difference between them would be pretty massive.
If you find a used one for a good price, beyond the standard mechanical concerns make sure you do your research into controls. Fanuc, for example, is known for service contracts where you have to pay them about 3k per year just to have the option to purchase parts or manuals.. If the machine has sat off for too long the parameters of the control could be lost and you're pretty much fucked at that point. I can't believe that there isn't regulation requiring this kind of thing to not happen, or requiring manufacturers to give this information out (this is why right to repair legislation is important). Fanua actually pays people to hunt down their manuals on the Internet for dmca takedowns. Things to think about.
If you find a used one for a good price, beyond the standard mechanical concerns make sure you do your research into controls. Fanuc, for example, is known for service contracts where you have to pay them about 3k per year just to have the option to purchase parts or manuals.. If the machine has sat off for too long the parameters of the control could be lost and you're pretty much fucked at that point. I can't believe that there isn't regulation requiring this kind of thing to not happen, or requiring manufacturers to give this information out (this is why right to repair legislation is important). Fanua actually pays people to hunt down their manuals on the Internet for dmca takedowns. Things to think about.
"Fanuc, for example, is known for service contracts where you have to pay them about 3k per year just to have the option to purchase parts or manuals."
I have a Fanuc control and have never heard of this. I would not buy anything unless it had a Fanuc. They are the most robust control in my opinion. Lots of pdf manuals online.
Haas has excellent online support. Not from Haas, but from the many users. Haas also has repair techs in Calgary. I myself have not owned a Haas. Mori Seiki with a fanuc control for me.
I have a Fanuc control and have never heard of this. I would not buy anything unless it had a Fanuc. They are the most robust control in my opinion. Lots of pdf manuals online.
Haas has excellent online support. Not from Haas, but from the many users. Haas also has repair techs in Calgary. I myself have not owned a Haas. Mori Seiki with a fanuc control for me.
I looked at Syil. There are currently some drawbacks. To get the ATC you need get a industrial control and 10k spindle. So that adds a lot to the cost. The LNC control has to be set at factory to metric or imperial - you can’t switch it. No G20 or G21 modes. The Siemens does both but the conversational programming is quite weak. Siemens needs 3 phase so you will need a converter. All these details really add up. The syil online quoter lets you pick incompatible options. They want full payment when they ship your machine from China. I think they have some work to do...
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
You should have 3ph in the shop in the first place. All of my larger machines are 3ph. Bigger possible problem with buying used is 3 different voltage systems - especially Canadian only voltage system of 600v. The 480v is US. You can get a transformer from 240v to 480v or 600v BUT these are almost impossible to find used & ordering a new one for say 5hp or 7.5hp machine is well over 1000 CAD up to and over 2000 CAD - this is potentially a lot of $. Running 480v on 240v is technically possible but you loose 2/3 of the power of the motor - so not really advisable for a mill plus CNC can have other issues. Re-wiring CNC for different voltage may also be too expensive. Fortunately all small CNC are mostly 240v.
https://ca.syil.com/mini-cnc-mill
Once you add up some options this thing is getting expensive very quick & there is very close to zero chance of every buying this thing used for reasonable price. At first glance doesn't exactly seem to be much better the Tormach. Also some specs are rather... tiny. I mean total weight of #5 is just 300kg - for 50% more $ the #7 is more respectable 900kg. Still table loads of just 50kg and 100kg? A BP can do around 350kg+ (!!) Half of the weight would be taken up by the vise alone.
https://ca.syil.com/mini-cnc-mill
Once you add up some options this thing is getting expensive very quick & there is very close to zero chance of every buying this thing used for reasonable price. At first glance doesn't exactly seem to be much better the Tormach. Also some specs are rather... tiny. I mean total weight of #5 is just 300kg - for 50% more $ the #7 is more respectable 900kg. Still table loads of just 50kg and 100kg? A BP can do around 350kg+ (!!) Half of the weight would be taken up by the vise alone.
I've literally had this conversation with fanuc. I'm not saying it's a shitty control, I'm saying if it breaks you're over a barrel and that's where they take advantage. They are generally quite inexpensive options which is fanuc's business model.. Sell it for less, make up for it on the back end. People don't tend to think of that side as much, which is what they exploit.
I didn't look into great detail at their setups, just the overall cost vs tormach and specs.. As far as I can tell the x7 beats out the tormach considerably, but I didn't hear anything about the switching units which is a little sad. I'd guess you could put a fagor or something else on it if you wanted.
A mill doesn't really need conversational, lathes are a different story. It's unlikely that you'd use it on a mill IMO.
As far as 3 phase, it's not really optional on most machines once you get past a hobby size - and it's not a big deal. It's something you'll have to factor into the cost, but I know people running larger Haas mills on rpc's with no issue.. Often the spindle hp is exaggerated fairly dramatically and you won't use the full hp anyways.
I don't know a lot about the shipping but the states has far better options for shipping. It's not inconceivable to have it put on a train and drive down to get one even. The border often is the bigger deal in my experience. You'll never get much for support on a used machine that's a private sale, and if you go to a dealer you'll be paying more (which could be worthwhile for the support).
Machines are expensive.. Options are more expensive. It's a LOT better than the tormach as far as I can tell. Comparing a Bridgeport manual mill to one of these isn't the same class of machine at all, although I agree that the weight limits seem low but generally parts are small which is why work envolopes start small. You're not fly cutting heads on one of these machines, you're making parts that you couldn't make on a manual mill, or doing production runs. As far as changing voltages, if you're patient at all you'll find a transformer cheap. My 20kva 208 -> 600v was about 300 and it runs my 10hp manual mill just fine.