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Vise v. Y-travel

trlvn

trlvn

Ultra Member
My (current?) vise has mounting tabs both on the side and the ends of the vise, see below.

IMG_5923 vise end.jpg


Theoretically, I have about 8 inches of Y travel. Since I installed a DRO scale on the column side, that should leave me with about 7 inches usable. However, the widest piece I can mill **in the vise** is just less than 4.5 inches because the fixed jaw can't get closer to the column than about 3.5 inches. The tab on the front of the vise hits the column of the mill.

If I removed the front tab, I could install the vise using the T-slot closer to the column and gain about 1.5 inches of usable Y.

So, 2 questions:

1) What bad things will happen to my vise if I hack off the front tabs? (Probably I should just replace the vise I don't like just throwing money at every little problem.)

2) What bad things will happen if I install the vise in using the front T-slot rather than the middle one?

Thanks,

Craig T.
 
I can't imagine anything bad happening, except regret for not doing it sooner.? Just save the offcut for a project.
Are you certain that you gain by moving it to forward t-slot, hard to tell from photo.
 
The only downside to lopping that tab off is losing the ability to easily mount that vise inline with the x travel with the center slot. Ask yourself how many times you've ever done that, and how many times you might need to in the future. Then chop it off....even If you leave a little bit, like perhaps just up to the back of the slot, you can always use a toe clamp to catch what's left there anyway.

This is one of the things about Kurt style vises that are great. They have the ability to mount the jaws to the outside to really maximize that holding area. Yours doesn't offer that option "now" but there are holes there, and just a quick milling project to mill that back face square would get you there too......
 
Put the vice mount in the front t-slot, move table so vice can go as far over as possible beside column . Will be able to see what will be gained. It appears jaw will not be supported by table, however, down force when machining should be limited. Can the sometimes needed room be gained by mounting vise 90 degrees from present orientation?
And as @Dan Dubeau has said above.
 
gerritv said:
I can't imagine anything bad happening, except regret for not doing it sooner.? Just save the offcut for a project.
Are you certain that you gain by moving it to forward t-slot, hard to tell from photo.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure. Below, the table is wound out as far as possible. The spindle centre is 2.75 inches away from the fixed jaw line. The T-slots are on 2 inch spacing so moving the vise towards the column should get me more usable Y work envelope.

table out max.jpg


Below, the table is wound in until the vise contacts the column. The spindle has travelled about 7 inches but as you can see from the work piece mock up, I wasn't going to be able to square up the nearest edge.


Table in max.jpg


Using the T-slot closest to the column will put the fixed jaw just about vertically above the back edge of the table. About 2 inches of the vise will be hanging off the table. I don't think this is a problem. Am I missing anything?

It occurs to me that if I make this change, I'll be using a portion of the Y lead screw that previously hasn't been worked very hard. That actually sounds like a good thing to me.

Craig
 
I think the idea of that mounting the vice inline with the X axis dates back to when horizontal mills were the standard. This is based only on experience using my Hardinge horizontal mill and haven't read this anywhere, so read this as rampant speculation, but from using that machine with a Chinese Kurt clone, I have regularly wished that I could mount it inline with the X axis.

Consider a part with a rectangular protrusion coming out of the top surface. How you would mill that using a horizontal mill? Two sides of the rectangle are trivial to machine using the X axis, but to mill the other two you either have to rotate the part in the vice, or rotate the whole vice. I've noticed that vices with mounting tabs like that also tend to have a relatively small jaw opening (I've seen as little as a 2" opening on a 4" wide vice). That limits the size of parts which you are able to rotate within the vice, so for larger parts the only real option is to rotate the whole vice. Another operation where a regular vice mounting can be an issue is drilling with the horizontal spindle. The fixed jaw is almost always in the way.

If we accept that the point of mounting inline with the X axis is to make the vice more useful on a horizontal mill, what about a vertical mill? On a vertical mill can you think of an operation where you cannot do it with the vice mounted conventionally, but could if it was inline with X? I can't come up with one off the top of my head.

If you think removing that mounting flange will make the vice a more useful tool for your purposes, then I'd say do it. And I don't see any issue with mounting the vice in the front T slot either.
 
Yeah, this is a pretty old vise. Maybe it was intended for a horizontal mill? I believe shaper vises are normally mounted with the jaws parallel to the motion of the ram so the mounting tabs on the ends also make sense there.

To answer @Dan Dubeau , I have never mounted my vise in the other orientation. This vise also came with a swivel base which I removed long ago to save Z height. Should I need it, I could use the swivel base to get the other orientation.

OK, I think that tab is coming off!

Craig
 
You can always clamp parts directly onto the table.

If you use a spoil board underneath of it, and with some clever clamp placement / movement during your milling operation, you have access to all 4 sides of the part in one set-up.

In that case there is no need to modify your vise.
 
I was going to say the ^same^ thing.

Too late now but this is something to keep in mind when vise shopping. This style is a bit more adaptable in terms of how it can be clamped with all the T-slot spacing variations out there. You can position at an angle or even stand it on edge with blocks & clamps. They are also generally lower height from table to ways vs Kurt style, which means a bit more vertical room.
1753896668429.png
 
I bought this affordable 4" vise from BusyBee. It is bolted to the bed and seldom gets removed.
Very pleased with it. Easy to shift toward column for max space. Moveable jaw face can be installed on end closest to operator for holding wide parts.
 

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