Vise for Grizzly G0704

[proxima]

I'm looking to buy a vise for my grizzly G0704. KBC tools has Kurt DX4 and DX6. I don't know why the DX6 is cheaper than the DX4 when it's a larger vise, but I assume that I should go for the bigger vise just in case I upgrade to a bigger machine in the future.

Will the DX6 fit on my G0704? Is the DX6 too big for the G0704?

 

[DavidR8]

Yes a 6" Kurt is too large in my opinion.
I have a RF style mill and went with a 4" Glacern vise. Things I considered were the size of my table (24" x9") A large vise is going to hang off the front of the table a long way or it's going to take up Y-axis travel because it is overhanging the rear of the table.
The G0704 table is 2" narrower at 7 1/16"

The 6" Kurt is 16" deep so less than half the vise is going to be on the table. The hold down bolts are 5.5" from the front of the vise
The 4" Kurt is 12.3" deep and the hold down slots are 4.8" from the front of the vise.
Also a 6" vise is tall and takes up valuable Z-axis travel. I believe you have a maximum of 13" of Z travel. Subtract about 4.5" for the height of the vise and you have a little over 8.5" of Z height remaining for tooling. Add a collet chuck and an endmill and there's not going to be a lot of room left.

Buying a 6" vise in case you upgrade is not a good plan because it will limit your capability with the mill you have now.

As far a brands go, Kurt is obviously cream of the crop, the 4" is more than the 6" but look at a 4" Glacern. They are excellent quality.

 

[proxima]

Thanks for the tip. For a 4" Glacern, I will have to wait a while until the border opens up before I can pick one up over the border.

Yes a 6" Kurt is too large in my opinion.
I have a RF style mill and went with a 4" Glacern vise. Things I considered were the size of my table (24" x9") A large vise is going to hang off the front of the table a long way or it's going to take up Y-axis travel because it is overhanging the rear of the table.
Also a 6" vise is tall and takes up valuable Z-axis travel. I believe you have a maximum of 13" of Z travel. Subtract about 4.5" for the height of the vise and you have a little over 8.5" of Z height remaining for tooling. Add a collet chuck and an endmill and there's not going to be a lot of room left.
Buying a 6" vise in case you upgrade is not a good plan because it will limit your capability with the mill you have now.

As far a brands go, Kurt is obviously cream of the crop, the 4" is more than the 6" but look at a 4" Glacern. They are excellent quality.

 

[DavidR8]

Thanks for the tip. For a 4" Glacern, I will have to wait a while until the border opens up before I can pick one up over the border.

I had mine shipped to me on Vancouver Island and it was $42 via FedEx. Call them to get the best service.

 

[proxima]

$42 seems too low for shipping a vise cross borders, especially via FedEx. If I can get it shipped to my door for $42 to Vancouver, it's better than driving cross borders.

I had mine shipped to me on Vancouver Island and it was $42 via FedEx. Call them to get the best service.

 

[DavidR8]

I checked again and I went with the USPS option to avoid the ridiculous FedEx brokerage. This is USD btw.

 

[PeterT]

The key thing is shipping cost component (only). So the customs assessment & other dinger fees come on top. Either payable upon delivery/pickup or a nice letter in the mail a few weeks thereafter. Lots of forum discussion how to ease the pain. But that was pre-COVID-19 so things are weird now. I had a backorder through KBC & they continue to ship & sometimes parts are sourced from USA if not in stock at Delta. So I think things are getting through on truck? Best to contact the vendor directly to nail that down in these crazy times.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Get Border Bee to deal with extra fees.

Vises went up in price due to CAD dropping to the gutter.

Also look at auctions. May want to look at other vises as well that are brand name.

 

[proxima]

Thanks everyone! I will definitely look into all the recommendations.

Also, I am looking for recommendations other necessary milling tools specifically:

Collets and tool holders (I have seen some for sale on the Tormach website, are there any other good source people recommend?)
Haimer 3D-sensor and Z-axis presetter (I assume these two pair well with each other for zero-ing tools and edge finding)
I also need a recommendation for a standard dial indicator with one of those attachment arms

 

[DavidR8]

I’ll chime in again.
I settled on an ER32 collet set for my mill.
I use a small mag base with a dial test indicator stuck on the spindle to tram my mill.


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[proxima]

Where did you buy your ER32 collet set from? How about the tool holder for the ER32 collet? Any particular brands for the collets and tool holders?

I’ll chime in again.
I settled on an ER32 collet set for my mill.
I use a small mag base with a dial test indicator stuck on the spindle to tram my mill.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dabbler]

@proxima I used a 6" vise on my B048 mill for 20 years, and it had the same 7 1/2 inch table and 7 1/2 inches spindle to column. It is was exactly the same as the Grizzly G7155 milling vise. Never had a problem with it and eventually sold the mill to make room for its bigger brother.

I used it with the swivel base, and that allowed me to put it in a convenient place on the table.

 

[DavidR8]

Where did you buy your ER32 collet set from? How about the tool holder for the ER32 collet? Any particular brands for the collets and tool holders?

I bought it from Little Machine Shop.

I have an MT3 taper spindle so that narrowed my options. I also wanted a 3/8”-16 drawbar thread which basically meant anything imported was out as they’re all metric

I don’t use a tool holder as my end mills, boring head etc just chuck right up into the collets.
I have a keyed and keyless chuck for drills though I have used collets for drill diameters that match the collets such as 1/8”, 1/4”, 1/2” etc.

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[Tom Kitta]

I actually have a cheap ER32 set from China. Got from aliexpress few years ago. I also have few used collets from eBay. I also have ER40 set I got at auction and its all US made but not a full set. Also have small collets - ER20 - I got very cheap from aliexpress. My main holder is Bolton tools - for Chinese made it is quite good - it handled well over 1000 collet changes and does not show any wear.

 

[PeterT]

A nice side benefit of ER collet system for mill toolholder is you can utilize same system for ER tooling blocks & similar for lathe (att pics)

But spend some time reviewing the size you need. Collet capacity is one thing, but the nut size & arbor stickout is another. Holding a little EM in a big nut system sometimes doesn't work well together part & cutting clearance wise - in the mill I'm talking. I bought an ER20 long time ago specifically to hold small diameter EM's & specifically to grip the metric EM's where shank = cutting diameter, different than where shank is typically a more common standard. But they don't make blocks in that 20 size, I think I've seen 25 though. Unless you have a big mill, even ER40 might be big. Consider if you really going to hold a >1" shank in a mini mill. Some people confuse the number (for example 25) as the holding capacity. Doesn't work that way, its related the collet crown. For example ER25 can hold 0.630 so 5/8" nominal. More here https://www.maritool.com/Collets-ER-Collets-ER25-Collets/c21_56_63/index.html

Import collets are like most things offshore, it really can be a crap shoot on quality & runout. There is no sense having a pos holder or collets with .002" runout IMO. Spend your money once. The problem with a lot of import stuff is they will publish whatever bogus TIR values they think the customers will believe. Sometimes they actually deliver dimensionally & its an awesome deal & sometimes not. So try to choose based on a known good experience or at least some vendor that would be receptive to return.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Even with cheap collet you are unlikely to get TIR over 0.001 - maybe if you grip 12mm in 12-13 collet and have to compress all they way to the limit or even beyond limit.

High end stuff shines in CNC machines with CNC spindles - at speeds over 10000 RPM stuff better be very well balanced.

Also you may get bad TIR if you spin shank in the collet a bit too many times.

Generally any TIR over around 0.001 is bad - at TIR of 0.001 you loose a lot of tool life so such collet is only good for very rough duty - maybe drilling.

Remember to use size correctly - for a 12mm carbide endmill I use 11-12 collet. NOT 12-13.

When I have time I check my cheap heavily used collets - my ER40 not made in China are few tenths - and that is in my home made chuck. From Chinese I expect under around 5 tenths. Remember its a whole system - collet + holder + endmill + spindle that has to have such low runout all combined.