Tips/Techniques Using a piece of wood to begin squaring up stock on a Mill

[Susquatch]

To square up stock on a mill (make all sides perfectly perpendicular to each other at 90 degrees). I have always used a piece of softwood to even out the holding on my vise and accommodate irregularities on the subject block.

This piece of wood, and it's alternatives is the subject of this thread. If others want, I could do a separate thread on the whole process. (I'd bet we all would learn something with that.) I personally know a half dozen ways to do it and I'll bet there is another 10 dozen ways out there!

But that's another thread. This thread is about that Fkn piece of wood and it's alternatives.

No matter what method I'm going to use to square my stock, I ALWAYS start by picking the best of the worst surfaces to start with, put that side flat against my rear jaw, and may or may not use a parallel under the stock. Usually a parallel serves little purpose so I don't always bother. Then I put a piece of rough cut softwood on my front jaw to even out the irregularities and hold the stock firmly against the rear jaw. I may even cut the wood to form a better rough fit. Now I can machine my first real good reference face on the top surface. Sometimes with really bad stock, I have to put wood on both front and back, and then use that first top on the rear jaw with wood on the front. But that's not the norm.

As I mentioned above, I don't plan to discuss all the many ways one can square up the rest of the block in the subsequent steps. There are literally hundreds of ways to do it ranging from making a reference hat with side cuts to flipping, rotating, side cuts, partial cuts, etc etc etc Again, this thread isn't about that.

This thread is about that Fkn piece of wood. I'd love to lose that Sucker. I make a lot of firewood kindling that way.

I've seen the odd machinist use a ball bearing between the front jaw and the stock instead of wood. Often the ball was customized with a handle to hold it in place till the Jaws tighten. It seems to work just fine, and it is quite popular, but I always imagine the ball damaging my vise with the extremely high forces at the point contact of the ball and my jaw. So I've never tried it. The obvious solution to this problem is to grind a flat on one side of the ball to sit against the jaws. I don't think that is easy as it sounds and so I've never tried it either.

I've also seen many machinists use soft wires, rods, or bars. But this method requires a pretty good squareness to begin with. I seldom have that luxury. I fact, for those times that I do I prolly don't need anything!

So the question in this thread is: What do use in place of the wood? Or, do you have some magic method I've never seen before?

No YouTube links please....

 

[DavidR8]

I use aluminum TIG rod.

 

[Upnorth]

Doing it the normal way for me is to use a ball bearing. I get them from airplane propellers so they are abundant and free for me.

Second way is to use nothing. Use a piece of metal that is a little bigger than you need. Put it in the vise on parallels with the minimum amount you need to hold it in the vise. Fly cut the top flat. With an end mill cut the 4 exposed sides as deep as you can. Then flip it over put on parallels if needed and fly cut what was the bottom to the desired thickness.

 

[thestelster]

This works real well for me most of the time.

 

[Susquatch]

Nice as usual Stel! You never disappoint!

Your method exactly addresses my main concern - damaging my vice jaws with the ball. Love it!

But...... As usual, I have questions. How did you make that?

 

[thestelster]

Nice as usual Stel! You never disappoint!

Your method exactly addresses my main concern - damaging my vice jaws with the ball. Love it!

But...... As usual, I have questions. How did you make that?

It's just a 1" ball bearing, and forced fit into a piece of 1.5" diameter aluminium cut off, that was bored out.

 

[Susquatch]

It's just a 1" ball bearing, and forced fit into a piece of 1.5" diameter aluminium cut off, that was bored out.

Thanks as always Stel. I'll be making one of those for myself as soon as I find a suitable ball bearing.

Balls I've seen in the past for this purpose didn't have the aluminium sleeve. But most did have a handle drilled and tapped into the ball. You could consider adding one to your sleeve just cuz it's easy to do, but I don't think it would really add much cuz your contraption is pretty easy to hold as is and who needs yet another handle taking up space in the tool drawer!

 

[PeterT]

I like MDF or fiberboard. Mostly because I always have offcuts handy in many thicknesses: 1/8, 1/4, 3/8.... Its hard enough to be a decent clamping surface, but soft enough to conform to irregularities. And its amazingly equal in thickness even though that's not what is being asked of it in this case, it makes for a good spoil board that you can CA or epoxy parts to, or drill through. But another feature is it offers a lot of 'stiction' between part & jaw. It does not do well with liquid (cutting fluid & certainly no coolant) because swells.

if I have one minor beef about ball style, it only offers a tiny bit of contact area. Good for conforming to an irregularity, but not quite as good grip for irregular or rough milling which is more than likely what is going on at this stage. Yes you can crank it, but no you can't always crank it on delicate parts.

I tried solder on a stack-up of (so called) identical parts to mill across them all. It seemed to work. You could see some irregular flattening. But it was the erratic milling action that loosened them & then bad things can happen. Plus solder is getting damn expensive.

 

[thestelster]

I also use thick leather for more delicate stuff, and sheet lead for the really rough stuff.

 

[Susquatch]

I like MDF or fiberboard. Mostly because I always have offcuts handy in many thicknesses: 1/8, 1/4, 3/8.... Its hard enough to be a decent clamping surface, but soft enough to conform to irregularities. And its amazingly equal in thickness even though that's not what is being asked of it in this case, it makes for a good spoil board that you can CA or epoxy parts to, or drill through.

I also use thick leather for more delicate stuff, and sheet lead for the really rough stuff.

These are good alternatives to know about. I don't think I've ever used MDF although I do have some laying around including some scrap I horde. I just never thought about using it this way.

I think we all forget about what leather can do. It's one of nature's wonders. I horde a bin of leather scraps too. One of my favorite uses is as an old fashioned strop for sharpening HSS, Chisels, and Knives with Jeweler's Rouge.

I was really just asking about what others use as a goto solution for everyday work specifically to square up rough stock. I wasn't really asking about unusual holding situations.

But as long as we are discussing unusual holding situations, I might as well add a few of mine! LOL!

I am a self confessed lover of epoxy. I keep cheap stuff, medium stuff, and high priced Devcon in regular stock. I frequently make molds using plastic bags, baggies, or even putty and pour custom fit blocks of epoxy to hold things including in vises. Pretty sure I've posted about that on here. I'll come back and add a link to it later if I can find it.

Edit - here is the link to that post I was thinking of - Post in thread 'New vise jaw product' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/new-vise-jaw-product.5091/post-73716

The other solution I love is Minwax plastic wood. It is really a 2part epoxy, but I'm listing it separately because I use it so much. While not as strong as say Devcon or JBWeld steel epoxy, plastic wood has other appealing characteristics such as low cost, volume, machinability, and a wide mixing envelope. I use it more than anything else. I have also used car body filler the same way. The easiest way to describe how I use it is to compare it to a multiflex vise. It conforms to the shape of your part perfectly and is plenty strong enough for use in a vise. See the link I posted above as an example.

I think different kinds of wood suit different purposes. Soft wood, plywood, panelling, as well as oak, maple, & ash hardwoods, etc are all different and useful in their own special ways.

MDF does not do well with liquid (cutting fluid & certainly no coolant) because swells.

No worries for me. I NEVER use flood coolant. NEVER. Spray bottles, drip, and brush-on only in my shop.

 

[RobinHood]

Copper wire works well for me. I have a lot of cut-off pieces of different sizes from various wiring projects.

 

[trevj]

I'd rather use something that has some give to it, and that can conform to the work's surface, than use a single point of pressure, as you get from a ball bearing.

So, I guess, I am pretty much on side with leather, wood, soft Al Weld rod, and a bunch of other stuff, but not so much, the ball bearing with a single (indented!) point of contact!

The big ol' ball bearing is nice and all, but I would about as soon use checkered vise jaws on my work, as use one to square up a part. My goal is to make parts that nobody can see how I held them...

 

[Former Member]

The correct way is using a drill rod parallel to the base of the vise, about half way up on the moveable jaw.

Why? The fixed jaw should be square to the base and move jaw is not even on the best vises.

Ball bearing method does the same thing however puts to much of a point load on the material and cause deformation of a finished surface.

The rest of the methods, depends on the tolerance you are looking for and in sone cases are no better than the jaws themselves.

 

[thestelster]

@Degen @trevj I understand your concerns, and I agree, but you wouldn't use the ball bearing on a finished surface, unless you protected that surface with a metal pad. The OP was specifically asking about squaring up rough stock.

 

[Former Member]

For the first 5 cuts I don't even worry about it until cleanup and finishing starts.

 

[Susquatch]

The correct way is using a drill rod parallel to the base of the vise, about half way up on the moveable jaw.

There is no such thing as "The Correct Way". There are almost always multiple ways to do almost anyhing that work and meet the objectives. In this case, that is certainly true and many members have submitted excellent ideas that will work just fine. None of them has suggested drill rod nor suggested that their own way is the correct way.

However, in this case which is about squaring up rough stock, I'd submit that using drill rod is a bad idea. Using a hard rod forces the Jaws or the part to cant in the moveable jaw and almost guarantees problems. If you are going to use a rod, then the rod should be soft metal like copper or aluminium so it can conform to the work profile and improve the grip. Several others have suggested soft rods.

Ball bearing method does the same thing however puts to much of a point load on the material and cause deformation of a finished surface.

Well that's the whole point here. This is not a finished surface. The whole thread is about rough stock not finished material. So there is no worry at all about a ball deforming the surface. Any deformation will get machined away in subsequent steps. I kinda like the ball method and plan to make something similar.

 

[Bandit]

A very interesting read going on here, yes I have made many tooth picks and kindling by useing wood, fir, pine, spruce, what comes to hand. Alumumin, if scraps handy, never tried leather, and various other things.
I am thinking a hockey puck might be an answer, could be shaped as needed, thinned if too thick, I don't know if they are in different hardnesses. Used ones about, recycle value not very high, Verses alumumin, copper, etc.
Use what works, verses material, rough work, or finishing and type of work being done. What ever cranks your tractor!

 

[Dabbler]

The fact is you can use anything that has some compressibility, as long as it can resist the forces involved. Copper wire works, A half ball bearing works. A stick of 1"X1" hardwood (which is closer to ;690 square) works fine too. I would refrain from using Pine or cedar though. I've used MDF before. To make it conform better, try to make sure it only contacts 1" of the work - it is fairly strong in compression but it will conform quite a ways also, it takes a little more pressure.

Why not cedar, for instance? well my jaws always have a little oil on them, as I use oil for cutting a lot. Somehow cedar loves to slide on an oily surface! I've experienced it - lucky I take undersized cuts! I'm only guessing Pine would be the same.

I'm lucky I have a lot of maple and cheerry hardwood cutoffs and these work a dream, My newest go-to is old slightly corroded 10ga house wiring. I've got a bunch of it, and I'll never reinstall it. So I'll use it as a compressible shim.

 

[PeterT]

The correct way is using a drill rod parallel to the base of the vise, about half way up on the moveable jaw.
Why? The fixed jaw should be square to the base and move jaw is not even on the best vises.

I don't see much advantage to a drill rod. Its hard enough & rigid enough so as not to conform well to the presumably rougher side on the moving jaw.
Cartoon of top view. When viewed from side of course it has at best a single tangent line contact. At worst maybe a few points.
I've heard it used to affect the pinch point so as to push the work down.

 

[PeterT]

Forgot to say, the advantage of the stehl's bearing ball is it has a flat surface on moving jaw which is kinder to the jaw & more aligned to screw. It can be positioned middle-ish of the jaw which is also good. Because even if you have a couple thou top view taper, is not a great loading situation for the vise jaw. If its very rigid, it will just be a point/line contact on the part. If its less meaty, it stresses the jaw trying to conform. Something firmy-squishy mitigates most of these issues & usually has added grip. Just an opinion from an amateur part propulsion enthusiast.